A Question on early ASC in Horary??

Astrodawn

Well-known member
Hi,

I have had a question that I have asked 5 times over the past few months, I have erected a chart each time, these being completely random times and every time I have come up with the asc at 0/1 degrees (various signs)

I know enough about horary to know that the question is not valid if the asc is too early or too late in a sign.

Is this significant that each time the same question is invalid with an asc 0/1 degrees 5 times?? I have just done it again now and found asc at 0'31 aries.
Does it mean the question is all in my mind only and not applicable??

Thanks and looking forward to your replies on this puzzle?
 

tikana

Well-known member
hi

"I know enough about horary to know that the question is not valid if the asc is too early or too late in a sign."
where did you read this one?

earl asce means situation is still developing

T
 

Astrodawn

Well-known member
Hi Tik,

Im not sure TBH lol I always thought if the moon was void of course it was invalid along with an early ASC?? I have thought this for a few years durrrrrrrrrrr

So the thing im asking means that its still in developing stage?? hmmmm
So it is a valid question then and can be read as such?

Thankyou x
 

Astrodawn

Well-known member
I have just found this by Lilly -

Lilly warns against judging a chart with 0 - 3 degrees rising, unless the seeker is very young, and his physical charateristic "agree with the quality of the sign ascending." Early degrees may also signify that the matter in question is too premature to judge.

I really dont know why I thought it invalid full stop? Well you learn something everyday :)
 

MaeMae

Banned
Early or late asc. strictures are mitigated if the degee on asc. is conjunct querant's natal luminaries or asc, as I understand it. This goes for VOC moon questions as well. Do you have a personal planet at that degree?
Otherwise, early asc. indicates question is unanswerable, usually because all the cards are not on the table yet, i.e. there are forces/matters behind question that have yet to be fruited ~ unknown to querant at the time of question which might have effect on the querant's original inquiry.
 

tikana

Well-known member
Against the judgement does not mean do not judge the chart - it is old english. .. it means that everything in the chart should be taken into consideration.

if moon does not make any aspects to anything while in the sign besides cancer, taurus, sag, pisces it means that nothing will come of the matter

if moon is making off sign aspect while being within moiety, something will have to change 1st before matter happens

T
 

Frank

Well-known member
Remember that these are considerations before judgement not strictures against judgement.

In my experience, early degrees mean that perhaps the incorrect question is being asked - and that the situation will change and therefore change the actual question.

Also, I think one of the reasons that early and late ascendants were needed to be considered before judgment was because of the past inaccuracies in both time-keeping and chart calculations.
 

Astrodawn

Well-known member
Hi Both,

Frank - "Early or late asc. strictures are mitigated if the degee on asc. is conjunct querant's natal luminaries or asc, as I understand it. This goes for VOC moon questions as well. Do you have a personal planet at that degree?"

Uranus is conjunct the asc (but that is not a personal planet) the sun is at 1 degree scorpio 7th house also, saturn is also in 7th house.

Tik, another Lilly thing I have read is - "The chart is also not safe to judge when the Moon is in the Via Combusta, or "Fiery Way," which lies from 15 degrees Libra to 15 degress Scorpio"
In the case of this question the moon is in the 7th house at 15 degrees libra.

I am thinking this chart is unreadable for me based on Lillys rules??? of the moon etc
saturn is also in the 7th house, Lilly says - "Saturn in the seventh either corrupts the judgment of the Astrologer, or is a Sign the matter propounded will come from one misfortune to another."
One last thing if you wanted the answer to be a NO would a square between the querent and the quesited produce a NO answer?

Horary I try so hard with, but it baffles me sometimes!!
 

Astrodawn

Well-known member
the question is - does my BF still have secret feelings and desires for his ex from 2 years ago.

I have no evidence or had anything happen out of the ordinary to think this, I just FEEL it in my guts?
 

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Frank

Well-known member
the question is - does my BF still have secret feelings and desires for his ex from 2 years ago.

I have no evidence or had anything happen out of the ordinary to think this, I just FEEL it in my guts?

This is what I meant about it possibly being the wrong question. "Might he still have secret feeling and desires?" or "Will he act on his secret feeling and desires?"

Every relationship leaves some sort of emotional residue. Have you talked to him about whether he still has feelings for his ex?

My approach is that every chart can be delineated - but should every chart be delineated is something else entirely.

Since you asked the same question on five different occasions (which you really shouldn't be doing) and consistently get the same consideration before judgement, perhaps you are getting a hint from the universe that you're not asking the correct question.
 

MaeMae

Banned
frank or tik ~
do you think that the subtext of questions can still be found in a chart that answer the unspoken fear of querant?
hypothetically -
let's say Astrodawn asked the question she did, with hidden fear not written of them hooking up. Would we see a hook up actualized if quesiteds merc were in relation to say venus (desire) or mars (assertive sexual action) or even jupiter (go for broke) in say 5th or 8th or possibly even 12 th?
 

Anachiel

Well-known member
Yes. But that goes back to the can/should dichotomy I mentioned earlier.

Agreed! Just because you can do something does not mean it is in your best interest, obviously! "If all the other girls jumped off a cliff..." Anyway, just a humourous interlude there.

Some call these things, like the early ASC, a stricture. Some call them considerations. Either way, the point of what is being emphasized is that there is something about the situation or the question that has to be taken into account before the chart is read like any other chart.

Now, I think the point has been addressed but, I have to say. If you have asked a question five times...five! and still, get an early ASC, then you really do have something to consider ( about you- not them) before you ask yet the same question again.

Without meaning to sound crass or flippant ; consider that you might be a bit possessive. Consider you might be obsessed that someone has a past but loves you now. Consider that this person is faithful to you but has loved others before you, of course. Consider, that even if the chart said a big YES to your question what is that going to change or what good would it do either of you? Consider what is driving you to ask this question five times...maybe six by now. Consider if you are really asking about what your true concern is?

Blessings,

Anachiel
 

MaeMae

Banned
I think An sums up obsession nicely in the above pist. No harm meant A'd but it is something to look at , modernly speaking. Sometimes Merc reps the same kind of loop in thinking, though without an emotional reaction, not unlike his presence in natal charts.
I enjoy the subtexts in horary. They often tell more than the question does.
 

Astrodawn

Well-known member
Now, I think the point has been addressed but, I have to say. If you have asked a question five times...five! and still, get an early ASC, then you really do have something to consider ( about you- not them) before you ask yet the same question again.

Without meaning to sound crass or flippant ; consider that you might be a bit possessive. Consider you might be obsessed that someone has a past but loves you now. Consider that this person is faithful to you but has loved others before you, of course. Consider, that even if the chart said a big YES to your question what is that going to change or what good would it do either of you? Consider what is driving you to ask this question five times...maybe six by now. Consider if you are really asking about what your true concern is?

Blessings,

Anachiel

Hi MaeMae, Frank & Anachiel,

Thanks for all your input with this.
I have reflected on what you have said and believe you are right with my obsessional thought patterns.
I am finding life hard at the minute and am suffering from anxiety and depression, caused mainly by work oppression, and harassment, a mystery illness with my hormones, im under an encrinologist for investigation at the minute, and my cat almost dying of congestive heart failure.
I have no family and have lived quite a solitary life, not through choice but because i dont form bonds well, and have chosen to be alone as its always easier. My current relationship is the light of my life and for once I am loving being attached to someone i love with all my heart.
Maybe the fear of losing someone ive looked for all my life, coupled with my current negative sense of self worth, has made me somewhat obsessional on the negatives, the question didnt related to them getting together, it was just the continual thought that he cant love me as his number 1, and that I am probably second best, linked back to my childhood with my brother who was wonderful (apparently)
I have spoken to him about it, and he just says he did love her once but now now he loves me and wants to spend his life with me.
Thankyou for making me 'think' about this in 'reality' rather than 'negative'

Perhaps the early asc showing that the situation hasnt yet developed is because it is only in my mind, and the situation actaully hasnt developed due to it being non existant.

Again thankyou to you all, I think its time for a visit to the doctors x
 

MaeMae

Banned
Astrodawn ~
I'm happy to hear you have found joy after disappointments mentioned. Do you have Moon-Pluto aspect in your natal chart? It usually lends itself to the fear of loss you describe.
Try to remember that everyone has a past which is beyond your control and (easier said than done) that the only thing any of us has control over is our own reactions.
I hope you can find some peace and confidence to enjoy your relation with your man and not to let your fear of losing him to overtake the goodness in what you have found. It's likely that the early degee represents your own uncertainties, not his. Maybe it's a message for you to soothe down and let things unfold naturally in your relation. As you mentoned Uranus in your own chart at this degree, probably implies learning more about the importance of freedom vs possession? just a thought.
 
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