An Introduction to Planetary Dignity and Debility

[OzAstrologer]

Ah, the ongoing struggle between Tyl and the non-Tyl's!!

You know, Noel Tyl may be something of a rogue, but so what?? So was Jesus. Just because someone shakes things up with new ideas is no reason to disparage the man.

What Tyl does is to drag astrology out of the murky mud its been in for centuries and help to clarify things for many, many people, such as myself. Its an aid to learning, certainly not the be all and end all. Surely there's no such thing in such a vast field as astrology! But it IS to the point, and very handy for getting to grips with astrology.

I certainly wouldn't recommend using ONLY his methods - they need to be supplemented with other, more grounded methods. But certanly they helped me and added a new energised dimension to my study, with fascinating new concepts like the quindecile and peregrine.

It amazes and disappoints me that even in astrology there can be those who feel the need to name call others. Sorry but that's just juvenile in my opinion.

Personally I think its a very good definition of peregrine!

Some of the discussion of this thread is very confusing, esp. using Vedic astrology as this noble tradition has so many rules and variations that someone trying to learn simply cannot get to grips with it!!

Surely we can all agree that while there may be only one mountain, there are in truth many approaches to the mountain. Come on people!!! If you are secure in your own beliefs there is no need to denigrate others now is there?

 

[starlink]

After reading Ozzi's remarks, I decided to un-delete my thread. I agree completely with Oz. Tyl is not an idiot at all. I find him most intriguing and original. I very much like his book about the Solar Arc predictions. Fascinating. Indeed, you must never base your knowledge solely on one Astrologer's writings, but you can use it for additional insight. I personally love Stephen Arroyo but would also recommend others because every writer can have a different input and that's what makes is all so interesting, whether you totally agree with it or not.

Earlier on I wanted to ask if Arian Maverick maybe could put a list together with planets in their peregrine signs. It would be easy as an overview. I always have used planets in detriment, fall, exhaltation and peregrine in natal astrology. I actually never heard about this being used only in horary astrology. Not in my school it was!

 

[astrobhadauria]

Dharma (Religion) Artha (Physical Money) Kama (Family,children,life mate) Moksha (The purpose of life),these four parts of the Birth Chart,are usefull details about life.1st,5th,9th,arerelated to Dharam,2nd,6th,and 10th related to Artha,3rd,7th,11th are related to Kama,4th,8th,and 12th related to Mokhsa.There are Dharma opposite with Kama,and Artha opposite with Moksha.

 

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Earlier on I wanted to ask if Arian Maverick maybe could put a list together with planets in their peregrine signs.

This request would be quite a burden as planets are only peregrine in particular degrees of particular signs. A peregrine planet is not in Domicile, Exhaltion, Triplicty, Term, Face, Detriment, or Fall.

 

[starlink]

Oh, I did not know that they would have to be in particular degrees only of a certain sign. In that case it would indeed be a lot of work. But in Ptolemy's table of essential dignities and debilities, there is also mentioned that the Sun is exalted at 19° of Aries, Moon 3° of Taurus etc. but I think we always say: Sun is exalted in Aries, Moon in Taurus etc. not really taking notice of the degree. How about that than?

 

[jagetoile]

deleted post.

 

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Oh, I did not know that they would have to be in particular degrees only of a certain sign.

Oh yes, Luna, for example, is in her Face in 20-29 degrees of Aquarius. She is peregrine throughout the first 20 degrees of the Sign, though.

Of course, you're to assume there's no mutual reception, but that's a different story entirely.

 

[Lunar Pisces]

Draco - I had respect for you up until I read you calling Tyl an idiot. If you're as well versed in astrology as you act, you'd know that peregrine is one of those terms that has more than one definition for a long time. Such multiple and soemtimes confusing definitions are not uncommon in a field like astrology, where several different traditions have developed concurrently to one another.

The term peregrine simply means "wandering" in the classical sense, and different astrologers over the centuries defined a "wandering planet" by different standards, without there ever really being a consensus. In modern astrology two definitions remain - one as unaspected and the other as lacking essential diginities yet not in debility (that last distinction you forgot to add).

If you prefer one definition over the other, fine. I personally don't care. But don't presume your choice is the be all, end all, the-discussion-stops-here answer and that history ought to be rewritten based on your opinion. Anyone with experience doing astrology (or anything else) knows such ahistorical dogmatic convictions just don't hold water.

 

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I had respect for you up until I read you calling Tyl an idiot.

I find people's reactions to having their authors criticized to be hilarious.

I assure you, if you are broad-minded enough, you well see how astrology works like that too. We may want a grand trine to be prefectly aspected within our little orb system. But nature doesn't care and may at any time turn around to show favor to a less exact grand trine as it sees fit. It's our job then to look for nature's reasons for doing so, and not blind ourselves with our short-sighted expectations and consistencies. The same will hold true of everything in astrology, including things like dignities and debilities.

Well, this thought may indeed go against the ideas of astrology that state the more exact the aspect the more prominent it is. While a loose Grand Trine is still favorable, the tighter the orb the 'better' (for lack of a better term). I would love to see an example of how a loose Grand Trine is any more 'naturally favored' than a tight Grand Trine, or how any Grand Trine can be shown more favor by nature for that matter. How is this in anyway similar to the dignities and debilities system? We shouldn't 'blind' ourselves by saying "Luna in Capricorn is weak"? Well...it is. That's all there is to it.

 

[OzAstrologer]

I find people's reactions to having their authors criticized to be hilarious.

Well, this thought may indeed go against the ideas of astrology that state the more exact the aspect the more prominent it is. While a loose Grand Trine is still favorable, the tighter the orb the 'better' (for lack of a better term). I would love to see an example of how a loose Grand Trine is any more 'naturally favored' than a tight Grand Trine, or how any Grand Trine can be shown more favor by nature for that matter. How is this in anyway similar to the dignities and debilities system? We shouldn't 'blind' ourselves by saying "Luna in Capricorn is weak"? Well...it is. That's all there is to it.

Firstly, KnS, people are allowed to have their say.

Secondly, my point was and I thank Lunar Pisces for their input, is that we don't have to be blind to the past, just not hamstrung by it. If people feel the need to follow astrological rules slavishly then I;m afraid they just need to get outside away from the books and the computer and get a life.

 

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Secondly, my point was and I thank Lunar Pisces for their input, is that we don't have to be blind to the past, just not hamstrung by it. If people feel the need to follow astrological rules slavishly then I;m afraid they just need to get outside away from the books and the computer and get a life.

I'm sorry you find the rules of Tradition and the past 'slavish'. Not that your passion in standing up for the critized author spoke of 'slave' behavior or anything.

I don't see a need to change a system that works. The age of the system is not of concern, simply how well it does in what it is supposed to do. Don't fix it if it isn't broken, as they say. If you do, then please, be the one to create a new, better system than just someone who complains about it.

The topic of this thread is the discussion of planetary dignity and debility, not 'Tyl vs Non-Tyl'. This is kind of ironic, in the sense that the only real discussion that can be had off of this topic is the understanding of the mentality beind the assignments or other clearings up of misunderstandings.

 

[starlink]

Thank you Jag for the link. Very nice of you.

 

[delilah4]

I'm confused.

As a leo who has sun, merc, venus & jup in Leo - how come none are exhaulted or anything in my sign?

 

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Sol has dignity and daytime Triplicity in Leo. Jupiter has night time Triplicty in Leo.

I'm not exactly sure what your question was, so I'm sorry if this wasn't so helpful for you. :-S

 

[delilah4]

Oh I was just going by the chart they had at the beginning of the thread listing where all the planets were exaulted etc... But none of the planets were listed for leo not even the sun. It says that the sun is exaulted in Aries so it confused me.

Is there a difference between triplicity in daytime and nightime? Is one better than the other?

 

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

No, no planet is exalted in Leo. Sol is in domicile in Leo and exalted in Aries, that's two different things.

As for Triplicity rulers, there isn't a 'better' between night-time and day-time rulers. It's just they switch over after the sun sets.

 

[astro.teacher]

Is there a difference between triplicity in daytime and nightime? Is one better than the other?

Yes, a Planet is strongest when it receives the Triplicity of its time. This means if Sol is in Aries, he is stronger if you were born during the day than if you were born during the night. Some may say that he receives no dignity of Triplicity at all in this point. This is the same for the dignity of House. All the Planets (excluding Sol and Luna) have diurnal and nocturnal Houses. When a diurnal Planet is its diurnal Sign in a diurnal chart it is most happy and more fortunate. If it is a nocturnal planet found in diurnal sign in a diurnal chart, it is less happy in this position. While it still receives dignity for being in its own House, the effects are not as strong as if it had been in its most happy state.

 

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Basically what astro.teacher is saying is that each of the five visible planets have two houses (or Signs) a daytime and a nighttime, this cooresponds with the gender of the Sign. The 'houses' of the planets are listed below:

Mercury: Day-time Gemini, Night-time Virgo. Mercury prefers Virgo.
Venus: Day-time Libra, Night-time Taurus. Venus as a feminine planet prefers her night-house of Taurus.
Mars: Day-time Aries, Night-time Scorpio. Masculine planet prefers his day-house.
Jupiter: Day-time Sagittarius, Night-time Pisces. Masculine planet prefers his day-house.
Saturn: Day-time Aquarius, Night-time Capricorn. Masculine planet prefers his day-house.

astro.teacher, I was wonder as to your preferance of triplicity rulers. Dorotheus or the one Lilly uses?

 

[Night Sky]

How about Accidental Dignity?

Is it as good as Essential?

 

[astro.teacher]

astro.teacher, I was wonder as to your preferance of triplicity rulers. Dorotheus or the one Lilly uses?

I use Ptolemys table (the one which Lilly uses) however I havent really studied indepty Dorotheus' system so I cant be bias.

Nightsky,

How about Accidental Dignity?

Is it as good as Essential?

No its not. Accidental dignity is only second to Essential.