Aspects of homosexuality?

[kennedyrosewhith]

Faunus- I think left-handedness was originally brought up because someone said that if you can't find that in the chart, why would you be able to find sexuality, or something.

Uranus aspecting the Sun, Moon, Venus, and Mars, for one. But remember that not everyone experiences an aspect or placement the same way. I have Uranus aspecting my Sun and Mars, and while plenty of people currently think I'm gay, for some legitimate reasons, I'm actually pansexual. I'm sure there are plenty of people who aren't gay and have the aspects, or people who are gay with these aspects, yet live in pretty accepting environments, have been comfortable with their sexuality since a young age, and so you could have to look elsewhere to see how these aspects manifest. It's really difficult to apply blanket statements to something as complex as sexuality and sexual behavior. It doesn't help that *no one* fully understands sexuality, as far as how each person experiences it be they straight, gay, bisexual, pansexual, demisexual, asexual, whatever. We can only sit here and theorize.


I agree with Inconjunct, I don't think it's appropriate to try and diagnose someone's apparent homosexuality in a chart. If he is gay (there is NO guarantee, regardless of what you think the stereotypes say), he'll tell you if he wants you to know. He hasn't told you, so either he's not gay, or he isn't concerned about telling you. Either way, his sexuality isn't really your business.

 

[akp124]

I think finding out if your friend is gay or not can be asked in a horary chart. Not by looking at a natal chart.

But then again, I'm still a newb at all this so I know I'm wrong. lol

 

[wilsontc]

get back on subject, to all

All,

Please get back on subject. If you don't think homosexuality can be indicated in the chart, don't post to this thread. If you do have an opinion on how homosexuality can be indicated in the chart, please share your ideas. Not everyone will agree with everyone else and simply posting over and over "I disagree" does NOT contribute to the discussion. I will continue removing any more off-topic postings.

Back on subject,

Tim

 

[sandstone]

hi faunus,

regarding your friends chart... you can see the strong art focus with venus in taurus exact conj the lower angle.. venus/mercury is the creative artists mind and they both conjunct the ic while trine the ascendant - that is a 1 to 5 relationship, and 5th house is about creative activities.. moon opposite neptune will help as well..

as for planets and homosexuality, i think the outer planets involvement with mars or venus can strengthen the possibility.. in your friends chart a fairly close mars to neptune 135 implies less of a sex drive on the one hand, but the possibility of a different sexual orientation as well.. same deal with the venus opp uranus in his chart... this doesn't mean your friend is homosexual or that folks with these types of aspects will express themselves in a different way sexually, but these are the planets that i would be looking at for the most part...

one could think of rulership themes which will hinge on the type of house system you use too.. is it leo on the 8th or virgo? it will depend on the house system you use.. one then looks at the condition of the planet ruling the sign on the 8th for a clue to the nature of one's sexuality.. another possible point would be pluto which is said to have some bearing on the sign scorpio and 8th house affairs, sexuality being one of them.. so now one has all the outers involved and if they aspect the 2 planets most associated wtih one's sexuality - mars and venus - then perhaps less standard approach is more possible..

i didn't read the first page of this thread and skimmed over the comments.. perhaps there were other charts that folks were looking at.. sorry if i missed anything..

 

[agarth]

I think it is relatively easy to discern homosexuality in a chart. And in fact, it is relatively easy to discern the "type" of sexuality that pertains to anyone, straight, gay or neapolitan.

But such things are not discovered by looking at one aspect, or other type of "marker." C.E.O. Carter specifically links inharmonious Venus-Uranus aspects to "peculiar and unconventional ideas about sex," but then goes on to say that the aspect "does not incline to promiscuity or vulgar vice, and its connection with sexual perversion has probably been extremely exaggerated."

Liz Greene suggests that Saturn in the 10th may produce an inclination toward homosexuality. I do not agree, but that is what she says. J. Edgar Hoover had a well-conditioned Saturn in the 10th. But there are far too many exceptions to admit that such a placement "causes" homosexuality.

Nevertheless, homosexuality IS shown in the chart, and in most cases can be seen with relative ease. But as with all things, to see it requires reading the chart as a whole.

I was "performing" astrology at a psychic fair in Pueblo, Colorado one day when a young couple walked up to my booth. The man requested a reading, and I told him to give me about 20 minutes to prepare his chart and then come back. As he walked up on his return (I don't know what got into me...) I said in a conversational voice that could have been heard by anyone nearby, "You're gay." The man stopped dead in his tracks, quickly looked around him to see if his wife or girlfriend had overheard, and seeing that she was elsewhere came and sat down and we proceeded with the interview as if nothing had happened.

I am one who believes that homosexuality is not shown in the chart, and I have a challenge for those who thinks it is. I am posting 4 charts, two women and two men. Tell me who is homosexual and how you came to this delineation. This is especially for Greybeard, who seems quite sure of the ability of astrology to indicate homosexuality.

 

[sandstone]

http://www.astro.com/cgi/sub.cgi?lang=e&sumode=gresult&gquery=homosexuality

i would say the stars incline, but they do not compel..

 

[serafin5]

Look at the charts of John F. Kennedy, Jr. and Bill Clinton. A good deal is known about the sexual behaviors of these two men.

Now put together a list of a dozen or so of your favorite gay men. Examine the charts.

In learning astrology, the study of horoscopes is far more fruitful (no pun intended) than the study of books.

Lilith? Aren't ten planets enough? Before 1800 astrologers got along very well with 7. The power of astrology lies in its simplicity; the more elements you add to a chart, the more confused the astrologer's mind is apt to become.

Bravo!! That is so true.....Since coming to AW I didnt even know about the asteroids, the mini planets, etc, etc. And it has been more confusing adding more elements to the point that I am proud to call myself a "traditional" astrologer (but I dont knock the modern members at all ok?) to simplify things even more; and it has helped.

Thanks
S5

 

[sandstone]

agarth

thanks for presenting a challenge for any serious student of astrology to consider.. i am not convinced one can see a number of things in an astrology chart and this might be one of them too... we don't know if the chart is that of a person, or the installation of a lamp post, or a dog or a whole lot of things! astrology might be useful, but i think we could be fooling ourselves thinking we can see everything in a chart... with this in mind, i would like to do the challenge anyway, as i think it is a good one to galvanize my astro thinking.. really when you think about it, one can't know whether it is the chart of a man or a women either! it doesn't get more basic then that... for those who think they can see whether a chart is that of a male or a female, i am very curious to know how they get at it!!!

as for the issue of gays and homosexuality, i am a live and let live person.. we can't know everything and i think the violence and hostility of the past few thousand years is a sad statement of all we are capable of on this planet... we need to let go of our prejudices regardless if they are religious, political, sexual and etc. etc. and rise to something greater then hostility towards those who are different then us.. we need to embrace our uniqueness along the way as well..

jodie smith chart - powerful conjunction at 14 degrees aries involving sun/mars/venus, with moon close by at 11.. aries and libra can sometimes be accused of having a lack of identity.. you have to use your imagination and go with me in some of the things i say, lol... this axis is very different then cancer/capricorn.. one axis stands horizontal, the other vertical... one is making distinctions all the time while the other is more into equality... that is kind of how i see aries, although i didn't get to this position overnight! i would say this gives jodie a more openness to exploration of her sexual identity - an aries keyword - exploration.. the 135 to uranus in scorpio is very close to exact.. on the basis of all this, i think jodie if not gay, is an experimental person who would not be afraid to experiment in her sexual identity... i would say that she would be receptive to this and more likely to have explored this... the closest aspect in her chart is sun/uranus, 3 minutes out of exactness, followed closely by ascendant/pluto 4 minutes out... both these pictures in her chart which i consider most relevant to her chart implies an ability to break down barriers, sexual and otherwise...

deborah stucker chart - here we have an important cluster in libra - see my comments on libra/aries for my first thought here.. saturn is in a little over 1 degree orb of a 135 to ascendant from the 8th area/9th sign to ascendant... pluto is in a less then 1 degree opp to ascendant.. moon is in capricorn... venus/mars are conjunct in 8th sign to ascendant - virgo... i am getting a more conservative vibe to this chart through the saturn/ascendant combo, moon in cap, venus/mars in virgo... it is less likely that deborah would approach her sexual identity from as experimental angle as jodie... they both have a close pluto/ascendant aspect, so both are quite powerful personalities capable of blowing apart the norms of the culture they are born into, but i think deborah is less likely to... deborah - not gay based on all this... caveat - the 1 degree orb sun/uranus square might be more suggestive, but i still think the saturn is having more power over the chart then uranus... venus/midheaven square is close as well..

jeff fields chart... tough chart as i see it with sun/saturn 4 degree conjunction in the 8th sign to ascendant.. sun is in a 135 to jupiter/neptune square so at the ju/ne midpoint... neptune tends to do more of what aries already has going for it and that is make the person less sure about there identity, sexual or otherwise... again pluto aspects the ascendant here but not as close as the first 2 charts.. however, it is in a 1 degree orb to venus opp.. mars is 135 to the ascendant/pluto, so a powerful sexual energy pervades the chart from a few places - sun/saturn in the 8th sign to ascendant, pluto/venus opp and the mars to asc/pluto.. on the basis of this i would say jeff is willing to blow down any barriers to his freedom to explore just who he is... saturn in aries is not a weak placement here, but it is not so conservative either... much more independent minded.. moon in taurus has strong sensual needs too... i think jeff is either gay, or is very willing to explore sexually to know more about himself..

jim tule chart - jim is the odd man out here with no close pluto to ascendant... i think jim is born a bit later then frank zappa, a chart i have looked at before.. let me go see if this is correct.. zappa is dec 1940, so i am off... mars/uranus opposition made me think of him.. back to jims chart.. jim is a capricorn with sun in a square to saturn in aries.. he has a close trine of sun to uranus as well and has aquarius rising... interesting mix of saturn and uranus here with maybe uranus being given an edge due the strong opposition of mars/uranus in a wide square to his ascendant.. neptune is at the top of a t square with moon/mercury opp on the bottom.. neptune is in the 8th and these are all mutable placements.. venus in scorpio close to midheaven as well.. pluto in solar 8th to sun.. a few 8th house/sign themes run through jims chart as well, but it is harder for me to get a clear read on his chart on this level.. i would say he has many friends, and is probably some type of artist where connecting with open minded people on the sexual front is likely.. one could look at the chart on the basis of sect where the venus/mars many planets are out of sect.. jims sun doesn't get a lot of support from much in the chart.. his moon is in a tough place too as part of the t square pointing to neptune in the 8th.. jim probably has many friends, but has been single most of his life.. i initially thought jim was probably not gay given the capricorn sun square onto saturn, but now i am not so sure!!!! i am going to abstain on this one chart which is the odd chart out!!

thanks for the exercise agarth.. i appreciate it.. i don't really care if i am right or wrong.. it was more an opportunity to strengthen my understanding of the charts from a sexual point of view... thanks..

 

[Elephantasy]

A rising Pleiades or Alcyone could indicate homosexuality. But that's fixed star astrology though.

 

[sethi]

Homosexuality is just a variant of human sexuality in the same way as left-handedness is just a variant of hand preference. Homosexuality has no more markers in a chart than left-handedness and certainly Lilith - which doesn't exist - has nothing at all to do with anything.

Just by studying the design of the hand, you can decide if a person is homosexual or not.

Anyways it has now been proved that homosexuality is built in the genes, and there is nothing much we can do about it. The development of the left hemisphere of the brain.

 

[greybeard]

Actually, you can describe anyone's sexual inclinations from the chart, not just the homosexual. Being "straight" does not imply rigid adherence to the missionary position; the variations of sexuality within our species are vast.

Sexuality is basically a psychological phenomenon. That is, a person's sexuality is in accord with the entire personality, just as all else is. Our sexuality is inborn; its open expression is subject to repression due to external pressures, of course. But the physical expression of sexuality is the lesser portion; it is nothing more than the projection of our inner being into the outer world, as everything we think, do and create is.

 

[Claire19]

Ok there is this guy who is super girl hungry and he is obsessed with his girlfriend to the point he won't let her move. Now I looked at his chart and he has Lilith conjunct Venus. So is his mercury and its all in the 7th house.When I did research however they said he more than likely will be gay? i was a little confused by this notion because the guy is girl crazy and when he got his girlfriend that's all he ever talks about, she's like his best friend and lover. So i need to know is this aspect true for all people with this placement. And when I told him about it he said that as a youth he had issues with his mother and was not a people person, but that's why he loves his girlfriend even more because she has been there for him when his mother wasn't. He said that he can't be attracted to men sexually. He doesn't feel it. So i'm wondering how this aspect works exactly. What kind of behavior does it give a person?

I dont use Lilith anyway and homosexuality belongs with Uranus with Venus and Mars and sometimes the moon. So why would you think he would be homosexual when everything points to the fact he is not?????. Danger of taking aspects out of context with the rest of the chart. The 5th house is our romance and lovers anyway.

 

[Claire19]

Actually, you can describe anyone's sexual inclinations from the chart, not just the homosexual. Being "straight" does not imply rigid adherence to the missionary position; the variations of sexuality within our species are vast.

Sexuality is basically a psychological phenomenon. That is, a person's sexuality is in accord with the entire personality, just as all else is. Our sexuality is inborn; its open expression is subject to repression due to external pressures, of course. But the physical expression of sexuality is the lesser portion; it is nothing more than the projection of our inner being into the outer world, as everything we think, do and create is.

You can see where the homosexuality aspects are in a chart of a person already known to be so. However aspects that point to unconventional sex and love in a straight person may show the same.

 

[Rushwing]

You can see where the homosexuality aspects are in a chart of a person already known to be so. However aspects that point to unconventional sex and love in a straight person may show the same.

I cannot believe the threads I am reading today. Sexuality is incredibly fluid, and can change over time in ones life. I agree with you claire19 as well. Anyone claiming they can determine sexuality with a chart is most likely (99%) making a false assumption based off of pre-knowledge of the individual who's chart is being used as evidence.

UNTIL, someone can prove they have this talent using a double-blind study . (THAT IS: Reading charts of total strangers who are unknown to the reader, as well as the reader being unknown to the subject)

If I were to follow up with a unknown person's chart below, (I know their sexual orientation BTW) and then someone here who claims to know, I can test them. Then this test should be reproduced 100 times.

Are any of you people here real? I am ready for this challenge to you. I'm not sure I have 100 charts, but basically, I am very tired of the quakkery on this site.

I am having the same problems with this thread as I am with the current one regarding psychopaths in astrology.

I am additionally insulted that people here who are CLEARLY non-medical practitioners making fallacious statements such as "homosexuality is in the genes". NO. SORRY. That fact has not yet been determined, in fact, I think it has currently been de-bunked a number of times, including with twin-studies, where one twin is gay and the other not.

People here who have no authority are making statements as if they are speaking from authority. And then not providing citations. And THEN lowering all of astrology as a science as a result.


Let's not also put aside the fact that I personally identify as bi-sexual, and I find this whole thread very insulting.

If I put my chart up on here, everyone who claims to know the answers would fit my chart to their bias. That is not astrology.

Please show us your double-blind studies....anything else is anecdotal and probably fallacious.

(Similarly, go to the thread that's current now about psychopaths, and read what I have said there, fortunately no one on that thread is claiming to know how to identify one via a natal chart...yet)

But there is plenty of BS going on there too...

 

[scorpittarian]

I know straight people who have Uranus/Neptune aspecting their Sun/Moon/Venus/Mars!

My 8H moon trines Uranus/Neptune.
Venus semi-sq Uranus/Neptune.
12H Uranus/Neptune conjunct Asc.

I've never been attracted to women....always oogled at men. However, I've considered dating women in the past as an experiment...just to see how it feels & whether it's possible to get into a serious homosexual relationship. If a lesbian asks me out, I might say yes. But getting sexual with her seems kind of disgusting

I've had friends, boyfriends & acquaintances with Venus/Mars aspecting Uranus/Neptune. My mom has a Sun/Moon/Uranus t-square with Uranus at the apex. All of them claim to be straight.

I think these are very general aspects & establish nothing. If homosexuality is genetic, then it shouldn't be represented by Uranus. Being homosexual shouldn't be equated with 'rebellion', non-conventionality', etc. That's like saying Uranus represents Kleinfelter's syndrome. The patient doesn't try to appear 'different', 'unique' & 'non-conventional' by developing secondary female characteristics on the top & male characteristics below. Many don't choose to be homosexual. And those that do, we should check their early conditioning; what exactly led them to choose this lifestyle. The 8H shows what we inherit so we could probably turn to the planets in the 8th & it's ruler.

 

[Rushwing]

I am so so... I am at a loss for words

anyone arguing that a single planet could describe someone's entire SEXUAL ORIENTATION, not just preferences, or gender orientation, or "maleness" or "femaleness"

These are all HUGE HUGE THINGS, that COULD NEVER BE DETERMINED BY ONE HOUSE OR ONE PLANET.

If we want an open discussion, someone here should post an anonymous chart, and not disclose the orientation.

Just provide us with some charts as evidence we could look over please, rather than just blindly state your "conclusions"

 

[electrorganique]

Ok there is this guy who is super girl hungry and he is obsessed with his girlfriend to the point he won't let her move. Now I looked at his chart and he has Lilith conjunct Venus. So is his mercury and its all in the 7th house.When I did research however they said he more than likely will be gay? i was a little confused by this notion because the guy is girl crazy and when he got his girlfriend that's all he ever talks about, she's like his best friend and lover. So i need to know is this aspect true for all people with this placement. And when I told him about it he said that as a youth he had issues with his mother and was not a people person, but that's why he loves his girlfriend even more because she has been there for him when his mother wasn't. He said that he can't be attracted to men sexually. He doesn't feel it. So i'm wondering how this aspect works exactly. What kind of behavior does it give a person?

This is my first post here at this forum (hi to everyone!) and english isn't my first language, but i'm interested to discuss this issue. Let's see what happens...

First of all, my opinion about this issue is: there's NO SINGLE aspect from any planets, even the luminaries (sun and moon) and personal ones (mercury, venus and mars) which may determine if someone at such chart is gay, bi or straight, at the point of ancient aphorisms being noticeable for determining this subject, for example one when we may get the moon at the 7th as a being result of homossexual in charts of men (i can't remember the author right now). Although, it's necessary to percieve which kind of reference we have of homossexuality there, since the 7th house is the area of known enemies and threatenings, together with friends and the partner itself and the moon symbolizes the feminine. So, when we study these questions, we have to be sure of how deep we are going to classify sexuality. Taking this example of the moon in the 7th house in male charts, just figure out that 1/12 of the men on earth have this moon. As terrible or worse than this is about the trans-saturnine planets using for such aspects... They're too slow for defining something so inner and personal like our sexuality.

Resuming: i think that our chart may show how WE ARE and how WE ACT into our sexuality. How do we deal with it, how do we care and how solved we are into it, etc... But it simply cannot say "you're straight." At the same day and hour of your birth, 10 straight, 3 gay and 2 bi may be born along yourself.

Cheers.

PS: i have this example of moon and i'm bi, mostly gay.

 

[scorpittarian]

I wasn't stating conclusions. I was stating possibilities. I'm not well versed with astrology so I wouldn't try concluding anything on this forum at least.

Forget complications, I highly doubt if it's possible to determine a person's sexual orientation from his/her chart. It's like saying "this chart belongs to a man & that to a woman".

I'm posting 3 charts.
The First one is someone who's confused about her orientation but she is quite attracted to a female best friend. She has none of the so called homosexuality aspects in her chart. No Venus/Uranus/Neptune or Mars/Uranus/Neptune.

The second is a straight female with Mars in the 8th opp Uranus/Neptune.

The third is a male who is emotionally into women but does engage in same-sex sexual activities. His 7H mars squares Uranus/Neptune.

I don't see any uniformity in the results. The same aspects are applicable to straight as well bisexual people.

*DISCLAIMER : The 3 people are my friends & have been informed that their charts are being posted. In posting their charts, I'm doing nothing unethical.*

 

[MJ82]

MJ, your chart is beautiful, and it is indeed non-heterosexual in origin. It actually has nothing to do with your Moon in the 8th House as being the "gay/bisexual indicator". My "Dead Ringer Hypothesis and the 5th-8th-12th House Activation Theory" is dead-on every single time. If you'd like me to explain exactly what makes your chart non-heterosexual, I would be happy to explain it.

You might also find the following thread useful: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49509&highlight=homosexual
It shows the very beginnings of my hypothesis, and after testing it out on a few self-identifying and self-assured non-heterosexual individuals, it's being proved correct and accurate.

Thanks PD187540, I would be interested in hearing your take. As I said, I am gay, but I agree that these things cannot be so simplistically delineated from one's chart or from anything else for that matter.

But for the sake of this discussion, feel free to say what it is you think indicates this in my chart. I, for one, do not believe in the 'gay gene' theory at all, and as I said before I think sexuality is very complex, and even though I am gay, I do believe it is fluid, even for me to a point.

I mentioned Moon in the 8th only because I was surprised to read mention of bi/homosexuality in one description. I don't essentialize my sexuality in my own life, but this an astrology discussion on the topic, so I shared my "findings" lol.

 

[MJ82]

Isn't it better to study the trends in charts of people who self-identify as bi or gay, while also bearing in mind that these things are never rigidly determined by one black or white thing or another??