AppLeo
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The smallest minority is the individual.
Astrology Shows People are Individuals Not Groups
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The smallest minority is the individual.
wilsontc
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waybread,
Let's examine these ideas in the light of astrology and NOT in the light of politics.
Yes, SOME people are going to want to be on the mastodon hunt. And SOME people are going to want to stay home. SOME men will naturally be good hunters and SOME me will need to find OTHER ways to help out around the area. Astrology shows us this: individuals will have different individual interests. While SOME people will naturally want to behave interactively with others, others will NOT. Saying that just because someone didn't engage in mastodon hunting they can't have any part of the mastodon makes NO sense. Even in a society there will be SOME who embrace the social activities and others who want to do things on their own. Astrology shows us this, too: not EVERYONE is cut out for mastodon hunting.
REGARDLESS of the society a person is born into, a person FIRST has their own INDIVIDUAL energies they are born with. These energies underly EVERYTHING they do. That's why SOME people naturally fit into the societies they are born into and OTHERS move AWAY from these societies. Saying you are BORN into a society means you always have to BE in that society or even AGREE with that society, again MAKES NO ASTROLOGICAL SENSE.
IMAGINE being a black boy in the US born into slavery in the Pre-Civil War South. Then the Underground Railroad comes around to your door and lets you know about the FREE NORTH. Imagine the EXCITEMENT for that black slave boy who suddenly is OPENED UP to a NEW WORLD of possibility. And WHEN he escapes to the FREE NORTH, imagine how his world OPENS UP as he sees black preachers, businessmen, and politicians, embraced openly and respected by society. Black men who are free to live out their astrological potential.
As you know, girls until relatively recently had limited prospects, but eventually that, too, went away, as women gained the right to vote and the right to compete in business with men. Again, while SOME women would choose to go into business OTHERS would not have either the interest or ability and so would choose OTHER things to do, again, based on the skills and abilities indicated in their astrological imprint.
While, as you say, there ARE outside forces working on people that affect their ability to choose what they WANT to choose, the astrological fact that there IS an inward WANT that drives and directs them through life. It is THIS INWARD force that is MORE important than the outward force. It is THIS INWARD force that motivates SOME people to continually struggle against the limitations their culture places on them and for OTHERS to simply accept those cultural limitations.
While there IS an outward cultural influence on a person, these cultural influences come MUCH LATER than the INWARD influences they have AT BIRTH. Which means that LONG before any cultural conditioning happens people are WHO THEY ARE OUTSIDE of their culture.
While some focus on the culture and use that as an excuse for people's personal decisions and behavior, astrology shows that LONG before the culture acts on a person, a person has skills and abilities that they long to develop and grow in their life. A GOOD culture helps people realize those skills and abilities, gives them the freedom to explore who they are and who they CAN be. A BAD culture cuts them off from self-exploration and insists that they are who they are based on the color of their skin or some other external factor and have NO ability to develop themselves beyond the limitations set by society.
But ultimately these efforts to subdue a person's inner being through indoctrination and cultural conditioning fail. THAT is why dictatorships such as China and others are eventually forced to LOCK PEOPLE UP: because SOME people are FAR too individualistic to be able to effectively and consistently culturally condition them to behave against their nature. Truth will out. People will live out their astrological nature.
About the astrology,
Tim
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Me too.
An astrology chart is like a finger-print. No two are alike.
You only have to look within a family & see how individual everyone is even after experiencing the same 'conditioning', religious beliefs, etc.
Everyone 'turns out' differently because we are free-thinkers & INDIVIDUALS.
We already see many inter-racial & inter-faith marriages in the world.
As the world progresses & there are less rules & more equality, the true essence of every individual can be revealed.
Tim's posting is right on the money!
An astrology chart is like a finger-print. No two are alike.
You only have to look within a family & see how individual everyone is even after experiencing the same 'conditioning', religious beliefs, etc.
Everyone 'turns out' differently because we are free-thinkers & INDIVIDUALS.
We already see many inter-racial & inter-faith marriages in the world.
As the world progresses & there are less rules & more equality, the true essence of every individual can be revealed.
Tim's posting is right on the money!
Molecules are made up of atoms. Molecules=groups, & Atoms=Individuals.
There are over one hundred types of atoms.
There are over one hundred types of atoms.
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Tim, once again you're trying to shoe-horn far more complex realities into your rightwing ideology about erasing social differences so that minority voices may be ignored and everything gets whitewashed.
Tim, have you seriously studied hunter-gatherer cultures? Boys at a very young age got socialized into learning how to hunt. Being a skilled hunter was highly prized and a source of status, especially in the marriage market. The only men with other roles were the elderly who did hunt as young men but who could no longer hunt, and helped out with womens' duties; or the very rare individual who could become a shaman.
Tim, you need to read up on anthropology, archaeology, and ethnohistory. You cannot just make it up as you go along. In most hunter-gatherer societies, people could not just "do things on their own." Survival depended upon collaborative efforts. Where life was a bit easier, to allow more flexibility, there were strong social sanctions regulating people's behavior. A big problem was that leaving your band's own territory might plunge you into imprisonment or death in a neighboring tribe's territory. You cannot simply read your modern urban lifestyle ideas into very different cultures. Please educate yourself!
So how did this work for enslaved people, Tim? Have you any idea of the punishments for runaway slaves in the American South? What about slavery in Roman times? People couldn't just escape (to where, on foot, mind you.) In some slave-holding societies, slaves were branded or forced to wear welded-on iron collars. They couldn't just assume a new identity. Nobody cared about the slave girl's personality development. She was lucky if she wasn't sexually abused by her master or his sons.
What a lovely, pleasant fiction you have, Tim Wilson. The data show something around 4 million enslaved people in the US in 1860. On your Cornwallis thread I reminded you of the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision. Please review it. An escaped slave in a northern state could still be captured and sent back to his master. Northern states still had all kinds of legal discrimination. Nobody knows how many escaped slaves used the Underground Railroad but estimates range from 30,000 to 100,000 That is well under 1% of the enslaved population just in one year (1860.) Very few made it to Canada.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1010169/black-and-slave-population-us-1790-1880/
Tim, you are dreaming. Take a look at what happens to girls under Taliban rule. They are not allowed to attend school. Child labor is huge in developing nations. Do you know what happens to women in fundamentalist Muslim societies who are not "properly" veiled or who fall in love with a man their parents disapprove of? Does the expression "honor killings" mean anything to you?
Even in the US, rape is severely under-reported and under-prosecuted. Rightwingers like you are working hard to deny women the right to autonomy over their own sexual health and reproduction. Imagine how you'd like it if the state decided to regulate your sexuality and reproduction.
What do you suppose it is like to grow up in a war zone?
Tim, there is simply no evidence for this claim. This is an entirely western modern view. Traditional western and Vedic astrology are actually fatalistic/deterministic.
One's skin color, religion (or lack thereof,) and parental income are not entirely "outside forces," but are part and parcel of how children get educated and socialized.
And if you're a Black kid holding a candy bar or a toy pistol in a playground and a police officer shoots you dead for it, there goes your inward force and choice in life.
Tim, this isn't a typical parenting experience. Kids get socialized immediately. They don't really start thinking until they develop speech.
Tim, socialization starts from the moment the baby is given a pink blanket or a blue blanket. There's a lot of child psychology research showing how parents respond differently to boy or girl infants.
So are you saying that your "free will" edition of modern astrology works only in "Good societies"? So much for astrology's universality.
Oh, c'mon Tim. Maybe it's time to turn to neuroscience. Brain scientists still haven't conclusively found a part of the brain that is the "me" or identity center. Which leads to the scary thought that one's sense of self is developed primarily through cultural conditioning.
Oh, and try being a raving individualist in a typical American public high school.
And what happens after birth? Do you live in a white cocoon where you seldom have meaningful interactions with political liberals or members of very different cultures?
Astrology's story is always only partial. Without supplementary information, a horoscope does not even say whether a person is born male or female. Yet sex and gender have enormous impacts on people's lives. The horoscope doesn't say whether you were born white, Black, or purple.
Tim, have you seriously studied hunter-gatherer cultures? Boys at a very young age got socialized into learning how to hunt. Being a skilled hunter was highly prized and a source of status, especially in the marriage market. The only men with other roles were the elderly who did hunt as young men but who could no longer hunt, and helped out with womens' duties; or the very rare individual who could become a shaman.
Tim, you need to read up on anthropology, archaeology, and ethnohistory. You cannot just make it up as you go along. In most hunter-gatherer societies, people could not just "do things on their own." Survival depended upon collaborative efforts. Where life was a bit easier, to allow more flexibility, there were strong social sanctions regulating people's behavior. A big problem was that leaving your band's own territory might plunge you into imprisonment or death in a neighboring tribe's territory. You cannot simply read your modern urban lifestyle ideas into very different cultures. Please educate yourself!
So how did this work for enslaved people, Tim? Have you any idea of the punishments for runaway slaves in the American South? What about slavery in Roman times? People couldn't just escape (to where, on foot, mind you.) In some slave-holding societies, slaves were branded or forced to wear welded-on iron collars. They couldn't just assume a new identity. Nobody cared about the slave girl's personality development. She was lucky if she wasn't sexually abused by her master or his sons.
What a lovely, pleasant fiction you have, Tim Wilson. The data show something around 4 million enslaved people in the US in 1860. On your Cornwallis thread I reminded you of the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision. Please review it. An escaped slave in a northern state could still be captured and sent back to his master. Northern states still had all kinds of legal discrimination. Nobody knows how many escaped slaves used the Underground Railroad but estimates range from 30,000 to 100,000 That is well under 1% of the enslaved population just in one year (1860.) Very few made it to Canada.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1010169/black-and-slave-population-us-1790-1880/
Tim, you are dreaming. Take a look at what happens to girls under Taliban rule. They are not allowed to attend school. Child labor is huge in developing nations. Do you know what happens to women in fundamentalist Muslim societies who are not "properly" veiled or who fall in love with a man their parents disapprove of? Does the expression "honor killings" mean anything to you?
Even in the US, rape is severely under-reported and under-prosecuted. Rightwingers like you are working hard to deny women the right to autonomy over their own sexual health and reproduction. Imagine how you'd like it if the state decided to regulate your sexuality and reproduction.
What do you suppose it is like to grow up in a war zone?
Tim, there is simply no evidence for this claim. This is an entirely western modern view. Traditional western and Vedic astrology are actually fatalistic/deterministic.
One's skin color, religion (or lack thereof,) and parental income are not entirely "outside forces," but are part and parcel of how children get educated and socialized.
And if you're a Black kid holding a candy bar or a toy pistol in a playground and a police officer shoots you dead for it, there goes your inward force and choice in life.
Tim, this isn't a typical parenting experience. Kids get socialized immediately. They don't really start thinking until they develop speech.
Tim, socialization starts from the moment the baby is given a pink blanket or a blue blanket. There's a lot of child psychology research showing how parents respond differently to boy or girl infants.
So are you saying that your "free will" edition of modern astrology works only in "Good societies"? So much for astrology's universality.
Oh, c'mon Tim. Maybe it's time to turn to neuroscience. Brain scientists still haven't conclusively found a part of the brain that is the "me" or identity center. Which leads to the scary thought that one's sense of self is developed primarily through cultural conditioning.
Oh, and try being a raving individualist in a typical American public high school.
And what happens after birth? Do you live in a white cocoon where you seldom have meaningful interactions with political liberals or members of very different cultures?
Astrology's story is always only partial. Without supplementary information, a horoscope does not even say whether a person is born male or female. Yet sex and gender have enormous impacts on people's lives. The horoscope doesn't say whether you were born white, Black, or purple.
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If, two people were born at the same place, at the same time, but of different sexes, do you believe their fates would be the same?
Would they break an arm at the same time? Marry at the same time? Would they lead such different lives, because of their being born of one sex or another?
In The Fated Sky, an example was given of rich and poor. They lead similar lives, and had similar fates, and died, very close to the same timing.
While I realize, we are raised differently, would astral twins of different sexes, not too suffer the same fates?
When constructing a chart, it is necessary to fill in the sex of the person. Why? A chart should be read as a chart, it should not matter.
Would they break an arm at the same time? Marry at the same time? Would they lead such different lives, because of their being born of one sex or another?
In The Fated Sky, an example was given of rich and poor. They lead similar lives, and had similar fates, and died, very close to the same timing.
While I realize, we are raised differently, would astral twins of different sexes, not too suffer the same fates?
When constructing a chart, it is necessary to fill in the sex of the person. Why? A chart should be read as a chart, it should not matter.
Alice Portman has done a lot of twin studies and recommends using dwads, as these are more sensitive to small differences in birth time.
What do you mean by "fate"?
To me, "free will" is a misnomer, but neither complete fatalism or complete choice is possible. We live somewhere in the middle, with some people having more choice than others.
Tim--it would be interesting to trace the history of the concept of "the individual" who is free to reach his/her potential. I don't think it really took off till the European Enlightenment in the 18th century. With another boost in the 20th century West.
What do you mean by "fate"?
To me, "free will" is a misnomer, but neither complete fatalism or complete choice is possible. We live somewhere in the middle, with some people having more choice than others.
Tim--it would be interesting to trace the history of the concept of "the individual" who is free to reach his/her potential. I don't think it really took off till the European Enlightenment in the 18th century. With another boost in the 20th century West.
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I am not talking about twins. Astral twins. Born at the same time, same place. Different parents. If one was male, and one female, do you think that they would break bones, at the same time, marry at the same time, have similar occupations?
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Fate and free will.
Fate happens.
Free will, you choose.
Most people don’t choose to break a bone. That would be fated.
Fate happens.
Free will, you choose.
Most people don’t choose to break a bone. That would be fated.
What is there about the U.S. astrologically to explain why it has the largest prison population of any country in the World, including China?
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Maybe, a horary chart, to determine which US astrological chart, is accurate to explain that.
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Cuz she is woke---so she feels it is OK to be rude and condescending because it is so progressive
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Is it ok to be rude and condescending towards wokists?
I try not to be. But I might reply in kind if they are being rude, arrogant and condescending. I think Tim deserves way more respect than he was given in that condescending reply.
Frisiangal
Well-known member
I think a more correct wording would be 'discussing differences in perspectives'. I didn't think that CAPITAL wording ....significant of shouting ... was allowed on the forum. I don't see that in posts that have other views than OP's whose use of capitals stresses a point.
It 's noticeable that the word 'SOME' appears to have replaced ' every individual'.
A shift in perspective?
As the old saying goes,
You can ???? (add own word) SOME people ALL of the time,
you can ???? ALL people SOME of the time,
You cannot change ALL people ALL of the time.
Does that work in favour of, or against, the context of discussion in astrological thought?
Actually, it's due to her Trump Derangement Syndrome. Ever since she discovered that Tim is not part of the 'Lunatic Left, Cancel Culture' she has really set her claws on him! The derogatory names she has called me because I'm a Trump supporter would make a grown man blush! But that's justified with her because the fake news does the same.
Look at Biden's chart & Harris. They both LOVE to lock people up & the 1994 Biden Crime Bill led to the mass incarceration we have today. Harris was known as the 'top cop' & locked young, black men up for small amounts of weed. Then laughed about it on the radio & admitted she liked to toke. She also laughed at prisoners asking for water. Yet these are the sociopaths you lefties admire so much!
‘Lock the S.O.B.s Up’: Joe Biden and the Era of Mass Incarceration
The controversial 1994 crime law that Joe Biden helped write, explained
Biden has taken credit for the 1994 crime law. But critics say the law contributed to mass incarceration.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...-biden-1994-crime-bill-law-mass-incarceration
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/us/joe-biden-crime-laws.html
‘Lock the S.O.B.s Up’: Joe Biden and the Era of Mass Incarceration
The controversial 1994 crime law that Joe Biden helped write, explained
Biden has taken credit for the 1994 crime law. But critics say the law contributed to mass incarceration.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...-biden-1994-crime-bill-law-mass-incarceration
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/us/joe-biden-crime-laws.html
