Ceres and alcoholism?

[Nexus7]

Could there be a link with this newly-recognised dwarf planet and addictions, too? After all, you have to have a grain or a grape to press first, and now I see that Ceres is not only rising, but is right on the Sun/Moon midpoint too.

This person was a chef and a very proud one to begin with.


I do not wish to post the chart, or give too many details: let us just say that 'the usual suspect' Neptune is not especially sensitively placed, other than being opposed by Saturn, but then so would all her schoolmates in that year. True, Moon is square Jupiter and the SNode is in the12th, and a wilful Sun square Uranus....other than that, I would never otherwise have felt, blind, that 'this was the chart of an alcoholic,' or of any unduly addictive personlity, for that matter.

Could certain problems or issues with what Ceres represents lead to something serious enough to impel someone to self-destruct via this path?

 

[Claire19]

Could there be a link with this newly-recognised dwarf planet and addictions, too? After all, you have to have a grain or a grape to press first, and now I see that Ceres is not only rising, but is right on the Sun/Moon midpoint too.

This person was a chef and a very proud one to begin with.


I do not wish to post the chart, or give too many details: let us just say that 'the usual suspect' Neptune is not especially sensitively placed, other than being opposed by Saturn, but then so would all her schoolmates in that year. True, Moon is square Jupiter and the SNode is in the12th, and a wilful Sun square Uranus....other than that, I would never otherwise have felt, blind, that 'this was the chart of an alcoholic,' or of any unduly addictive personlity, for that matter.

Could certain problems or issues with what Ceres represents lead to something serious enough to impel someone to self-destruct via this path?

Ceres if anything would belong to Virgo in my mind.....THe NN is in the 6th so health matters would be an emphasis I would suggest. The 12th deals with addictions and karma from the past so there may have been problems in the past. If the Moon is in a water sign for instance that could point to alcohol problems. Addictions do belong to Neptune but I have Nep conjunct Venus Mars in 8th and do not have a problem because they are all sextile Saturn, planet of caution and discipline. I believe these things are also hereditary.... The chef belongs to the 6th house of food and everyday needs and services. Moon Jupiter is more likely to be involved with over indulgence with food.

We always need a chart to decide. So no further comment.

 

[BOOGY99]

Could there be a link with this newly-recognised dwarf planet and addictions, too? After all, you have to have a grain or a grape to press first, and now I see that Ceres is not only rising, but is right on the Sun/Moon midpoint too.

*************

Interesting Nexus

I have natal Ceres on my sun/moon midpoint and i have been prone to addictions all my life.

Got me thinking now.

******
just seen another reply by claire

i also have 3 planets in the 12th including the sun and a water moon!!!

 

[Nexus7]

I have natal Ceres on my sun/moon midpoint and i have been prone to addictions all my life.

Got me thinking now.

Thank you Boogy 99. That is most interesting. If there are other areas of your chart youwould like to share from that perspective, then that would be most welcome, though I would respect your desire for confidentiality, if you do not wish to post your whole chart.

Incidentally, in the case I described, the Moon is not in a water sign.

I do think we have to keep an open mind about such things, and Ceres has only just starting to be be considered as a possible major player in the chart. I would suggestthat it is possible there are things about the way Ceres 'works' that have not yet been completely explored.

I have seen Ceres described as being as much to do with nurture as the natal Moon, albeit on a more pragmatic level, with as much deprivation rage built up possibly, if something goes badly wrong with this nurture. I saw some research, forinstance, that saw a high number of strong Ceres placements and aspects, with the charts of mass murderers. I think there is something on that on Bob Mark's site, if anyone wishes to look for these statistics for themselves.

 

[BOOGY99]

Thank you Boogy 99. That is most interesting. If there are other areas of your chart youwould like to share from that perspective, then that would be most welcome, though I would respect your desire for confidentiality, if you do not wish to post your whole chart.

***********
Hi Nexus

I hate talking about my problems, (12th planets I guess) but its time for me to be myself….well in small parts!!!!

The worst time of my life and biggest problems started when I was around 16yrs, at this time Transiting Saturn was in Virgo.

Due to panic attacks for not facing up to past problems, (keeping my emotions well hidden) I was put on valium.
20 yrs later, the doctors said I must stop taking these tablets as they are addictive, and went on anti depressants. (Was a very hard time!)

I have noticed in my life that my confidence goes and I get any thing from agoraphobia to Claustrophobia. (Only my sense of humour gets me though it lol)

This is when I binge drink, it happens in stages of my life, for eg a year of drinking, then 5 years, I don’t touch it.

Now, strangely look who is transiting Virgo, Saturn, for the 2nd time in my life.
And yes my confidence has been low for a couple of years…..I did not think of T Saturn in Virgo!!!!!

I have a friend who has problems like me, so I checked out her Ceres, and it is conj her sun?

My natal Ceres is on my sun/moon midpoint at 4 deg Leo exact!!!!

Boogy xxx

my chart
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/album.php?albumid=90

 

[Claire19]

Could there be a link with this newly-recognised dwarf planet and addictions, too? After all, you have to have a grain or a grape to press first, and now I see that Ceres is not only rising, but is right on the Sun/Moon midpoint too.

*************

Interesting Nexus

I have natal Ceres on my sun/moon midpoint and i have been prone to addictions all my life.

Got me thinking now.

******
just seen another reply by claire

i also have 3 planets in the 12th including the sun and a water moon!!!

I would suggest that the Sun and Moon in the 12th are the reason for your addictions. Ceres I dont believe has anything much to do with it.
Are there aspects to Neptune from your SUn and Moon???

 

[Claire19]

Thank you Boogy 99. That is most interesting. If there are other areas of your chart youwould like to share from that perspective, then that would be most welcome, though I would respect your desire for confidentiality, if you do not wish to post your whole chart.

***********
Hi Nexus

I hate talking about my problems, (12th planets I guess) but its time for me to be myself….well in small parts!!!!

The worst time of my life and biggest problems started when I was around 16yrs, at this time Transiting Saturn was in Virgo.

Due to panic attacks for not facing up to past problems, (keeping my emotions well hidden) I was put on valium.
20 yrs later, the doctors said I must stop taking these tablets as they are addictive, and went on anti depressants. (Was a very hard time!)

I have noticed in my life that my confidence goes and I get any thing from agoraphobia to Claustrophobia. (Only my sense of humour gets me though it lol)

This is when I binge drink, it happens in stages of my life, for eg a year of drinking, then 5 years, I don’t touch it.

Now, strangely look who is transiting Virgo, Saturn, for the 2nd time in my life.
And yes my confidence has been low for a couple of years…..I did not think of T Saturn in Virgo!!!!!

I have a friend who has problems like me, so I checked out her Ceres, and it is conj her sun?

My natal Ceres is on my sun/moon midpoint at 4 deg Leo exact!!!!

Boogy xxx

my chart
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/album.php?albumid=90

wow! After 20 years the doctor said that Valium was addictive???? I would say any time after 6 weeks....it was remiss of him to allow you to continue with them for so long....

 

[BOOGY99]

wow! After 20 years the doctor said that Valium was addictive???? I would say any time after 6 weeks....it was remiss of him to allow you to continue with them for so long....

****

yes it was the late 70s / 80s when i was put on them

started off at 2 ml daily, went up to 50 ml a day.....

then i had to reduce gradually, they dont work if you take them daily, only occasionally...eg dentist lol

 

[Nexus7]

Hi Boogy99

I have heard that valium is addictive too.

Probably, if you have strong 12th planet placements, this might indeed have something to do with it.

However, I still would like to examine new angles possibly not considered, if at all possible, and the fact is, whilst there is already an established set of symbolism and ideas for Ceres, it is still a 'new' addition to the known set of planets. There may be things that we have not yet fully undersatood about the way this body 'works' if very sensitively placed in a natal chart.


There is something about the pattern of extravagant giving, especially through preparation of wonderful food, then withdrawing and neglecting others, both professionally and personally, that to me, certainly implicates Ceres in the problems of this old friend of mine. I had strong misgivings, for example, when she said she was returning to work before the new year, saying how much she loved her job, whilst the next minute, telling me that the sense of always giving was leading to depressive feelings. That raised red flags - and sure enough, I found out that she was drinking again, even though it is killing her. The wide Moon/Pluto might too,and certainly Moon square Jupiter, but where I expected to see Neptune more tied up to Sun/Moon or the angles, what I foundinstead were Sun/Moon links to this rising Ceres.

The nurturing side of Ceres certainly does link it to the natal Moon, and if it is true that it could be linked to violence in relationships where there is an early lack of nurture, then I see no reason why it might not be implicated addictive forms of behaviour. Particularly if there is not an early pattern of loss and deprivation.

Ceres in Leo certainly likes to give in a 'big'way, when it does give.

 

[vanila]

I have Ceres conjunct Sun in 6th house Cancer....and Sun opp Neptune from 12th house...so if there is relation between addictions and Ceres that will explain ......my love for food and eating...I can't stay away from food....and when on a diet it is very hard for me....I have periods of time...when drink alcohol for a little longer ...and when feel bad ....even my mother noticed it....
"Claire19: If the Moon is in a water sign for instance that could point to alcohol problems."
this make sense for me.....since the Moon is one of the most sensitive and important body in our charts....

http://www.astrology-recipes.com/cancer-recipes.htm this is little away from the topic but it is interesting...
one more
http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/astrology-of-anorexia-destiny-deprivation-and/

 

[waybread]

Nexus, on another Ceres thread in another astrology forum, someone raised the idea that Ceres is related to grief. He noted that grieving periods in his life corresponded to Ceres transits. In mythology, Ceres spends half the year grieving for her daughter in the underworld.

A Neptunian alcoholism should mean someone who drinks as a transcendant experience--that does subsequently involve that bitter disillusionment; but the drinking may be related to erasing the self.

In a Ceres-induced alcoholism, could it be that the individual "self-medicates" to deal with grief of some sort?

But regardless, I would look for self-esteem issues in the chart, or indicators that the person lives with a lot of stressors. Then alcohol becomes an "out".

Maybe also look for asteroids Bacchus and Dionysius on the Astrodienst free charts page.

 

[Nexus7]

I suspect that Ceres can certainly relate to loss.

Interestingly, Amber, to give her a name, told me about her trips to a counsellor - he gave up and seemed to think there was no point. There has been a mother who drank likewise and was emotionally abusive, and there have been losses, most especially the loss of a favourite sister who died young. But she was so tough-cookie-I-am-so-over-it, that the counsellor was convinced there was nothing to look into there.

Two summers ago, though, she was upset because she thought a Christmas card her mother had sent, and with whom there was an estrangement, was full of hidden symbolism, in the colour of the glitter, choice of style, everything. And another thing I have wondered, is whether or not there isn't a mood thing involved, and that would be Mercury/Jupiter exact square Moon.

I have often feltthat maybe she just 'wanted' life to be special in some ways, or 'had to be happy' and the sense of loss being from recognising that this is not feasible, although someone else I know put it down to 'needing too much drama.'

This is someone who was extremely generous and good to me and a long-term contact since leaving the UK. But it has been disturbing, sometimes scary too, to watch what seems to be a descent into both madness and suicide mission. Sometimes too, there seem to be other mind games. For example, one summer when I was staying, there was an urgent call on my mobile to come to the clinic where whe was having a brainscan - but when I got there, there were no cancer diagnoses, but a rather 'what's-go-into-you' nonchalence.

The inconsistency over so many things just smokescreens everything, but I am surprised that nobody has asked about mood things.

I do think the Neptune transit to natal Venus seemed a particularly destructive one, that is for sure. Every year, I have been asked to do readings and I wondered about this, but all it did was literally 'chart' more and more deterioration. I do wonder whether anything I could have said would have made any difference. Years before the liver diagnosis, I kept getting cards in tarot spreads that were about the need to detox mentally and physically, I thought, andthat certainly seemed to strike a chord but whilst the need was recognised......It makes everything I could see or suggest smokescreened too, as maybe in the end, if someone wants to destroy life, marriage, livelihood, then you could say they are 'free' to do so.

Waybread, I did look at Bacchus and Dionysus - Bacchus is 7 degrees from the Sun, too far to be relevant I think, but 1 degree away from squaring Mars, whilst Dionysis squares the Sun by 3 degrees and opposes Uranus more or less exactly. Uranus squares the Sun natally, but Mars doesn't, but opposes Pluto.

 

[astrologer50]

Nexus,

True, Moon is square Jupiter and the SNode is in the12th, and a wilful Sun square Uranus....other than that, I would never otherwise have felt, blind, that 'this was the chart of an alcoholic,' or of any unduly addictive personlity, for that matter.

Seems pretty clear to me its the 12th house planets especially jupiter that would account for 'secret binge drinking'

 

[Nexus7]

Astrologer50

There are no planets in the 12th in this chart. The only thing in the 12th is the SNode in Leo, Moon rules the 12th.

 

[astrologer50]

Astrologer50

There are no planets in the 12thinthis chart. The only thing in the 12th is the SNode in Leo, Moon rules the 12th.

oops correct, perhaps you could post the chart instead of us second guessing??

 

[waybread]

I suspect that Ceres can certainly relate to loss.

Interestingly, Amber, to give her a name, told me about her trips to a counsellor - he gave up and seemed to think there was no point. There has been a mother who drank likewise and was emotionally abusive, and there have been losses, most especially the loss of a favourite sister who died young. But she was so tough-cookie-I-am-so-over-it, that the counsellor was convinced there was nothing to look into there.

Two summers ago, though, she was upset because she thought a Christmas card her mother had sent, and with whom there was an estrangement, was full of hidden symbolism, in the colour of the glitter, choice of style, everything. And another thing I have wondered, is whether or not there isn't a mood thing involved, and that would be Mercury/Jupiter exact square Moon.

I have often feltthat maybe she just 'wanted' life to be special in some ways, or 'had to be happy' and the sense of loss being from recognising that this is not feasible, although someone else I know put it down to 'needing too much drama.'

This is someone who was extremely generous and good to me and a long-term contact since leaving the UK. But it has been disturbing, sometimes scary too, to watch what seems to be a descent into both madness and suicide mission. Sometimes too, there seem to be other mind games. For example, one summer when I was staying, there was an urgent call on my mobile to come to the clinic where whe was having a brainscan - but when I got there, there were no cancer diagnoses, but a rather 'what's-go-into-you' nonchalence.

The inconsistency over so many things just smokescreens everything, but I am surprised that nobody has asked about mood things.

I do think the Neptune transit to natal Venus seemed a particularly destructive one, that is for sure. Every year, I have been asked to do readings and I wondered about this, but all it did was literally 'chart' more and more deterioration. I do wonder whether anything I could have said would have made any difference. Years before the liver diagnosis, I kept getting cards in tarot spreads that were about the need to detox mentally and physically, I thought, andthat certainly seemed to strike a chord but whilst the need was recognised......It makes everything I could see or suggest smokescreened too, as maybe in the end, if someone wants to destroy life, marriage, livelihood, then you could say they are 'free' to do so.

Waybread, I did look at Bacchus and Dionysus - Bacchus is 7 degrees from the Sun, too far to be relevant I think, but 1 degree away from squaring Mars, whilst Dionysis squares the Sun by 3 degrees and opposes Uranus more or less exactly. Uranus squares the Sun natally, but Mars doesn't, but opposes Pluto.

If you are seeing change over time, perhaps progressions would be helpful.

Eoes this person have a lot of oppositions in her chart, especially involving the moon? I. e., the "see-saw" pattern?

 

[Nexus7]

The chart is more of a locomotive with some splay features, than a seesaw. The oppositions are important though - Saturn/Neptune, Venus/Ceres, these latter straddle the Asc/Descendant, and Venus is on the Descendant.The Moon in the chart is widely conjunct Pluto, out-of-sign by 6 degrees, square and exact Mercury/Jupiter conjunction and trine Saturn, though the trine to Pluto is closer, as in in Virgo.

The chart is almost all Earth and Fire, with only one planet in Air (Venus), and the NNode. And there is no Water - absolutely none at all.

 

[Nexus7]

It was a bit remiss of me not to post her chart but I wasn't sure if she would have wanted me to post it.

She died in December 2015, so the confidentiality thing isn't really an issue now. Sorry the chart doesn't show the rising Ceres. There is no water at all in the chart, it's almost all earth and fire.

 

[Humanitarian]

Ceres is about nourishment of yourself and enjoyment of food and drink, a creation for the people of the Earth, and alcoholics consumes too much alcohol, so it's about excess (Jupiter) and/or addiction (Neptune) aspects to Ceres, especially sextile and trines because it can cause laziness, which is also an underlying reason for alcoholism for being high all the time, too. Tense aspects between these also can cause alcoholism, too, because there are conflicts between the sense of self-nourishment/their inner mother and their natural, sober jovialness/their ideals of life, so they developed an unhealthy coping mechanism, and alcoholism is one of the unhealthy coping mechanisms after experienced a traumatic experience in their own life. Ceres/Chiron aspects also points out the woundedness of their own inner mother, too, and the inner painfulness of the Chironic wound caused by traumatic experiences from their own mother, and so they developed an unhealthy coping mechanism, too, and alcoholism is one, and they need to get high to forget about the wounds that they were experienced and/or are experiencing now and live free from trauma like normal people that grew up in homes with healthy relationships between each other.

 

[JUPITERASC]

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