Dream character analysis and connections to my natal chart.

[athenian200]

So, I knew I had this recurring dream with the same three characters sometime in 2007, and while I'm still not sure of the exact dates, I think one of them was sometime in August, and around August 20th seems most likely?





The characters:
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Picture three characters. One is a redcoat named James, looking like he's straight out of the 18th century from fighting the Revolutionary War on the British side. He's always holding a Bible and a sword, though sometimes the Bible turns into other things, like a student handbook or any kind of instruction manual. He generally is extremely dutiful, modest, respects authority, follows the rules, and tends to focus on things like morality, duty, behaving properly, etc. I'd say he's the main "face" I tend to show people in real life. If he were a real person, someone might diagnose him with dysthymia, because he is unable to derive pleasure from his own actions and is totally dependent on the approval of external authority figures to feel happy.

Another is a Vulcan from the 23rd century named Solok, looking like he just stepped off a starship. He holds a communicator and something like either a magnifying glass or a microscope, always looks at things more closely and scrutinizes them, while always sending and receiving observations. He tends to be very stoic and always points out when the other characters are doing or saying something illogical. He always tries to analyze everything and reduce the world to logic, tends to be most interested in technology and generally thinks technology and logic can solve every problem. He generally feels very detached from the world and from himself, just seems to be an observer who feels like he's watching everything from the outside. Almost seems dissociated in some way.

Finally, you have a girl named Althea. She would be an American artist and writer who was born about 10 years before I was in real life, with painted nails and a blue dress. For whatever reason she doesn't like shoes, or at most will wear flip-flops. She's always holding a pencil and a mirror. The pencil she uses to record her thoughts and express herself, and the mirror is something she's always using not only to gaze at her own appearance, but she also uses it to see other worlds, other times and places, etc. Basically, the impression you get is that she's very imaginative, creative, curious, tries to predict things. The main problem is that, well, she's female and doesn't feel very comfortable living in my male body, so she usually lets James or Solok face the world while she stays in the background.

James and Solok are always arguing, with James negatively comparing Solok to French revolutionaries and various Enlightenment figures, saying he's seen that kind of thing before, and Solok pointing out how James isn't very logical and is too attached to authority figures and the past. Which leaves Althea usually being the one to try and stop the fight, to come up with a compromise the other two can live with. Or, to put it another way... in some ways, it's like the dynamic in Star Trek, with James being a bit like McCoy and Solok being like Spock, with the problem that there is no Kirk or Picard figure who can take charge. Just Althea, who really doesn't want to be in charge, but is somehow more competent than the other two in any situation where there aren't clear rules or logical objectives to follow.

The astrology
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With James, I think he represents a dynamic that includes the Sun in Aries being ruled by Mars in Capricorn, which itself is ruled by Saturn in Capricorn. Uranus being there with Saturn is interesting, because it was discovered around the time of the American Revolution and was almost called George's Star instead of Uranus, after King George III. Generally, seems to be very focused on maintaining order and avoiding disruption, keeping schedules on track, upholding conventions and fulfilling duties of various kinds. Sometimes being very stubborn, argumentative, and irritable about these things. So a lot of Saturn, but also Mars serving Saturn.

Althea, similarly, seems to represent a dynamic involving the Moon in Libra being ruled by Venus in Taurus, which also happens to rule over Jupiter in Taurus. Generally, she seems to be all about finding compromise, imagination, optimism, making herself and others comfortable, wanting to create beauty and harmony, empathizing with others a lot, enjoying talking about people and psychology, tends to be very expressive and sensitive, artistic, etc. So mostly Venus, but also definitely Moon and Jupiter serving Venus.

Not really sure about Solok, except that he may well be Mercury in Pisces conjunct the North Node, along with the Aquarius MC.

But overall, the difficulties in the chart seem to be represented well by the way these characters struggle to work together productively, and want to go in different directions a lot of the time.

Not sure if anyone else has anything to add to that, or any additional insight, but I thought this might be interesting as a combination of dream analysis and astrology.

 

[athenian200]

So, now that I've opened up about feeling like a girl inside, I can explain what I think these three represent to me beyond what I normally share, and how it connects to my gender dysphoria.

So, basically, James is the part of me that is uncomfortable with the idea of transition. He probably represents morality, the superego, etc. He often talks about a "duty to be a man," and respect my parents, etc. Basically the feeling I get is that what James wants most is to be seen as respectable and good. He often compares the way I would be seen after transition to something like a much worse version of how someone who loses their virginity before marriage or gets divorced is seen. He's against the idea because he is deeply traditional and values honor, and feels that if I went through with it, I'd never be respectable again... that is, I'd enter into womanhood tainted somehow, and that's very hard for him to bear because he wants to be respectable in the eyes of authority, to be seen as a good person and live without the fear of being seen as immoral by traditional standards.

Althea, obviously, feels like a girl inside and is very much a fan of creativity, self-expression, individuality, open-mindedness and compassion more generally. While Solok and James have adapted in different ways to me having a male body, Althea doesn't seem to be able to do that. It really doesn't matter how much James talks about duty and morality, or how much Solok talks about logic and biology, she just continues to feel like a girl inside. She's good at diplomacy, compromise, creativity, but for whatever reason she cannot adapt to the idea of being a man at all. She has this intuitive idea that she is a girl, and likes the aesthetic of it, and just goes with it because it "feels right."

Solok is detached from both positions and mostly focuses on objective truth, analyzing things and trying to see reality as clearly as possible. In some ways, it seems like he is mostly there to point out when the other two say things that don't seem to accord with reality or reason, or in some cases to analyze difficult things in the real world.

There was a very sad conversation between Althea and James once, where they realized in some ways, what leads them to exist as counterparts to each other. Basically, James wants to be good, respectable, moral, upstanding, etc, but that means he has to be a man. Althea wants to be a girl, as well as open-minded, creative, artistic, etc... but that means she has to give up being good or respectable. Basically, Althea considers sacrificing goodness and respectability to be a girl, while James considers sacrificing the opportunity to live as a girl to keep goodness and respectability. So, overall, that means... I as a person probably want to be both a good, honorable person but also a girl, but the goals are incompatible, so I feel stuck because either way, I lose something I want.

There's another really obvious motif in the dream that I realized recently. The male characters are wearing military uniforms, and the female character is barefoot. That's a really good analogy for how presenting myself as a man or a woman feels. Presenting myself as a man makes me feel heavy and cut off from myself somehow. Like I'm wearing thick boots and a whole military uniform, or even a suit of armor, and focusing narrowly on a sense of duty or a specific goal. Like I can't feel myself, I'm a bit dissociated or something, watching myself from the outside. Everything I do seems to follow a lot of "rules," and I actually come across as having a bad case of autism sometimes, because whatever I'm doing seems to come across a lot like autistic masking, if you know what that is. Someone told me once that it seems like when I let my guard down and show my natural self (which would be Althea I guess), I seem to be able to make eye contact and read social cues but seem feminine/gay, while otherwise I seem like a classic Aspie guy that can't do those things. Like, I may be on the spectrum, but James seems way more Aspie than Althea does for whatever reason.

When I present as a woman, even online... it just feels really comfortable, but also kind of vulnerable. It's like the feeling you get when you come home after a long day at work and take your shoes off, but more on an inner level. There's no weight, no dissociation, and I feel rooted. I feel mentally and emotionally free to go wherever my creativity or curiosity takes me, and just express myself without a filter somehow.

So, I'm realizing I just need to put faith in my natural self, because... trying to have James or Solok run my life doesn't work, even if it numbs the dysphoria. I tried that many times, and it seems like it's always a bit dysfunctional and stuck in a rut when they try, since they're not adaptable. It seems like when Althea runs my life things just click, though it leads to more gender dysphoria. With Althea fully awake, Solok and James naturally do the things they're best at as required, and everything works somehow. It's just... despite all my misgivings and self-doubts, it's pretty clear to me that my natural feminine self is the best part of me, and living my life based on duty and logic while holding that back isn't going to get me very far.

I guess... I'll just have to do something to ease my conscience and feel like I'm earning back some of the respect I lost, though it will never be the same. Maybe some kind of community service or something? I would be living in a way that a lot of people don't see as respectable, but maybe if I'm also doing other stuff that's undeniably good, maybe they'll see that isn't all there is to me, that I'm not totally selfish and only concerned with myself despite the way I chose to live my life? I don't know why the way other people see me bothers me so much, it just.... does. Other people tell me I should just have this "don't give an f, demand respect, and make no apologies" attitude, but it's like... I'm just not built that way. You know what I mean? Whether I live as a man or as a woman, I guess I will still be an INFJ, and that means tending to be sort of sensitive, reserved, apologetic, shy, tending to want to justify yourself and appear moral and upstanding in the eyes of others. It seems to be true that your MBTI type does not change... in my case, it may well have persisted beyond my assigned gender identity. LOL.

So, this is kind of a window into the inner world of someone who has been living with gender dysphoria without transition. Logic, duty, and the part that operates on instinct and intuition and just won't stop seeing itself as a woman... all going in different directions and trying to make things work day-to-day.

 

[katydid]

I really could have used a 'hug' emoji right now, on the 'like' function, if we had one.

Your dreams are very detailed. It's amazing to see. There is no easy answer, as you have noted.

A T-square to Neptune in the 8th, from a Sun/Moon cardinal Opposition. An active struggle between yin/yang opposition, forming an apex to the 8th house Neptune in Capricorn. Saturn disposes that Neptune, but it is tightly conjunct Uranus, so that brings some chaos and upset to the equation?

/=

That^^^ seems like the perfect midpoint for gender dysphoria.

 

[IleneK]

All I can say, besides also wanting to offer a deep genuine hug, is a heartfelt thank you.
Please forgive no astrology. None comes to mind right now.
Warmly,
Ilene

 

[athenian200]

One thing I haven't touched on psychologically yet, I think, is the imposter syndrome and how it kind of goes both ways. When I try to present myself as a man, I always feel inwardly like a woman pretending to be a man, just somehow having an advantage at playing the role due to having a male body. One time I was asked to do a visualization at a Jungian meeting about 10 years ago... and what I saw was so embarrassing to me at the time that I dared not tell anyone.

At the point when I visualized myself walking "down the stairs" to enter the scenario they were setting up, the sex of my body switched and I was wearing the same clothes as I wear in real life, but now I was female, wearing male clothing with... well, a sock in my pants and a binder around my chest. I was given an opportunity in the visualization to put on clothes that were more comfortable, but turned it down because of a fear of vulnerability or a feeling it would make my life harder. What was even more bizarre is one of the women there had a similar visualization, of an oversized man's coat she used to wear to feel safer for some reason.

The one place where the imposter syndrome really rears its ugly head with regards to me presenting a woman is... well, when I am stuck in a situation where I have to deal with my physical body or appearance. Then, there's a lot of weird conflict. There's the feeling that the body itself morally obligates me to pretend to be a man, which makes me uncomfortable being myself. And there's also the thought that the body being male makes it impractical and expensive to present as anything other than a man, so why can't I just "go with it" since it's easier, and especially since it's clear the body will never be like that of a typical woman.

Worse, there's the thought of how hideous the body is by female standards, and how much I really don't want it to be judged that way by others, even if it feels more authentic and aligned with my sense of self. So, by forcing me to compare myself to others and think about what people expect of me based on my looks, my body generates a feeling of imposter syndrome in the other direction, where I can feel ridiculous and like a man pretending to be a woman.

Astrologically, I feel like Mars in the 8th house is somewhat relevant here. The 8th house is about inheritance... in this case, my masculinity is tied to inheritance. It feels like it's an inheritance I've received that isn't mine. Like I'm putting on someone else's clothes to play their role and detaching from myself. There's also the feeling I would inherit more money from my family and enjoy a more secure position by playing this role. It can also representing squandering what is gained... if I don't stick with it, even though it's miserable, I'm squandering an inheritance, a lot of privilege in society, just to feel more at ease with myself. Not to mention anxiety, fear, and horror... body horror in my case.

So basically, manhood for me is just an inheritance I didn't ask for that causes me a lot of body horror, and which I'm thus tempted to squander in the process of becoming myself. It also supposedly can be associated with mental illness, anguish, and cognitive problems... well, the Mars influence on my life definitely causes some of that. I read another interpretation of the 8th house once that said that in one kind of astrology, it's linked to waste disposal and liberation from outdated matter... well, I could see that side of myself being outdated matter that needs to be disposed of.

The Mars being in Capricorn really just tells me what kind of masculinity it is. Very traditional, rigid, rules-based, focused on maintaining the status quo and not rocking the boat. So that, more specifically, I think is why I associate James with Mars in Capricorn. I actually had Udio generate a song based on James loosely, and I felt like it captures his essence really well...



So... why does James show up as an irrationally patriotic Englishman rather than a normal American man? Well, first of all, my Mars is in Capricorn. America is Cancer sun, and Capricorn is strongly associated with the British Empire as a sign, too. Second of all, well... if you did a DNA test on me, you wouldn't be able tell me apart from an Englishman on that basis alone. Biologically, I'm about as English as the people living there today, the same basic mix. English, Scottish, Welsh, maybe some Norse DNA on the Y-Chromosome because... well, you know what Vikings did. No matter how much we say we're Americans and not English, no matter how much our ancestors may have wanted to throw the tea into Boston Harbor while dressed as natives or something because they didn't like their king, we still have bad teeth and burn in the sun.

There's a degree of truth in biology trumping our feelings about ourselves, but that same grain of truth arguably goes against the foundations of American identity. People are always asking me the question "what do you want," or "what is your passion," and James hates that question because he can't answer it, he wants to do whatever he is supposed to do, to please authority figures, behave properly, and follow the rules, not deal with any of this individualistic nonsense about having a choice, because choice is an illusion, we're born into our roles and have to play them until we die, and that's the way it always has been.

Also, the masculine side isn't coming from inside myself, but rather has to be built up by the desire to follow the rules, there isn't natural desire to draw from. But American society keeps promising you can "do what you want," while judging you for what you want if it doesn't fall within this narrow but poorly defined range of things people are meant to want from within themselves. So, what do I draw on for my masculine side? I keep pressing for an answer on how to be a man that's based on what's proper, what I should do, what's correct, what will get me criticized the least... and when I do that, I find that the shadow of the older English masculinity is what's left.

The long list of shoulds and oughts, the quiet endurance of discomfort for the sake of duty... all those little things, still lurking in our collective unconsciousness from our English past (and in my case, maybe even a past life I once lived as a man), are all society seems to have left over to offer someone who doesn't have that sort of "innate" masculinity and needs an idealized template to copy to play the role while meeting the bare minimum requirements.

Because a normal American man just lives out a form of masculinity that comes from within himself that somehow falls into the loosely defined expectations well enough, and it works. Anyone who needs more than that, some kind of collectivist ideal of masculinity based on duty that can be performed solely for the sake of maintaining one's dignity, has to look to the part of our culture that's older than American identity itself.