Envy

[BorX]

I want to learn the opinions of other astrologers.

Here is the question:

What does in chart reprezents envy from yourself or from others?

 

[freedomlover]

I would look to aspects involving Aries and Scorpio, 8th house, and Mars placement. It seems to be a Mars thing, in general, because it has to do with what you desire. But that's just me being logical about it. I don't know what "the books" say.

 

[lilllybelle]

I don't understand why someone gave Borx a thumbs down. Are we not supposed to talk about negative emotions on here or something. Maybe we should get rid of this whole thumbs up thumbs down business. It seems like it was just used in a malicious way just now. L

 

[lilllybelle]

Well, I just made a fool of myself. BorX put the thumbs down symbol on there and I just thought someone was being rude and nasty with him. Well it's not the first time I made a fool of myself nor the last. God, I wish I could hide that last post of mine. HeHeHe. FreedomLover, Shining Ray, Howl a good joke to hide my embaressment would be nice right now. L.

 

[Howl]

Ahhah Can't think of a good joke, but I will point out that you can easily edit your posts to make it sound like you said something more relevant I won't tell anyone!! I have been guilty of creative retrospective editing myself I'll even remove this section from my own post if you give me the cue
Meanwhile....I see Mars as about getting what you want, the action motivated through one's senses. I see Venus as the more envious kind of planet. Envy is a passive thing; seeing something that someone else has and resenting the fact that you do not have it. If I had to pin envy to three planets I would choose Venus, the Moon, and Pluto. Venus for desire turned to envy when unsatisfied, the Moon for emotions turned to envy because another's needs come first, and Pluto for, well, just envy, because sometimes our Plutoes quietly like to have everything, and they can't

Although, I'm not sure that I've sufficiently grasped the distinction between jealousy and envy. What is the difference, in your opinion? Am I talking more about jealousy than envy?

 

[Shining Ray]

I looked up envy in the keywords section of my Astrology book, and Howl would be right in saying Venus would be indicated. I also have trouble telling the difference between being jealous or envious. I remember getting into a debate with my ex about the difference between the two. I should look up the meaning for each to have a clearer idea.

I have Venus in Capricorn 5th opposing Jupiter in Leo 11th and squaring Pluto in Libra 2nd house.

I envy:

• People who have a bigger kitchen than me, and I can't swing cat in mine.

• People who have more money than me.

• Girls who have naturally straight hair, I have to straighten my wavy Piscean locks.

• Anyone who is good at maths I ain't mathematically minded

• Women with a great wardrobe of clothes and who are immaculate

• Neighbours who have a large garden and I was left with a small one (well I least it takes less time to cut mine )

• Howl and her writing ability

• Freedomlover and her Astrology readings, and she is not afraid to ask the probing questions

• Arian Maverick and her intelligence

• I envy Borx for coming up with the idea for this thread

• But most of all I envy Lillybelles courage to stand up for people when she thinks they have had the thumbs down (hope that makes you feel better Lilly ) and also her honesty.

But I wouldn't say I was an envious person really

Shining Ray

 

[freedomlover]

That's funny, Shining Ray. I have naturally straight hair, and I've always envied those with "wavy Piscean locks" (or Leonian locks, or whatever kind of zodiacal locks, just as long as the locks were wavy. Or even better - curly)

And, Shining Ray, why would you want to swing a cat in your kitchen???????

(Do I need to report you to the Humane Society?)-winks-

 

[Shining Ray]

I like cats


Please don't report me. Hey, I would have no face left if I tried to swing my cat round anywhere.

Shining Ray

 

[23]

I got to agree with Howl as well. I'd say also that it is a plutonic thing as well because it is about possession - having what you can't/don't have.

I haven't really got into the difference of envy and jealous. From dictionary.com:

—Synonyms 1. enviousness. Envy and jealousy are very close in meaning. Envy denotes a longing to possess something awarded to or achieved by another: to feel envy when a friend inherits a fortune. Jealousy, on the other hand, denotes a feeling of resentment that another has gained something that one more rightfully deserves: to feel jealousy when a coworker receives a promotion. Jealousy also refers to anguish caused by fear of unfaithfulness. 4. resent. Envy, begrudge, covet refer to one's attitude toward the possessions or attainments of others. To envy is to feel resentful and unhappy because someone else possesses, or has achieved, what one wishes oneself to possess, or to have achieved: to envy the wealthy, a woman's beauty, an honest man's reputation. To begrudge is to be unwilling that another should have the possessions, honors, or credit that person deserves: to begrudge a man a reward for heroism. To covet is to long jealously to possess what someone else possesses: I covet your silverware.

Seems to me that over time that jealous has been used interchangeably with envy and taken on envy's meaning.

 

[23]

Parker's Astrology makes an interesting distinction, fitting the distinction that dictionary.com makes in regard to their definitions:

Envy: Tau, Lib, negative aspects between venus and saturn
Jealousy: Sco, Tau, sometimes venus

 

[freedomlover]

There is a fine line between envy and jealousy, at least the way it's commonly used. Personally, I sum it up like this:

Envy is wanting something that someone else has.
Jealousy is the fear of losing or having something taken that you think belongs to you, or does belong to you.

So, when the new girl in town runs off with your boyfriend, you are jealous over your boyfriend and you envy the girl because she has something you want. Her winning is something that causes you to doubt your self-worth. and you want to "possess" your boyfriend, so you are jealous.

So.... maybe envy is more tied up in self-worth - a Venus thing, and jealousy is more of a Mars thing. I dunno....Why'd y'all get me started? LOL

Actually, it sounds to me like the general collage of envy/jealousy is both a Mars and a Venus thing, but related to the Moon. Howl brought out some very valid points. Maybe it is the out-of-balance of Mars and Venus energies.

I think envy seems to be more Venus, and jealousy seems to be more Mars. I think that envy is tied to a feeling of low self-worth, and jealousy is what you do to try to possess what you don't feel you're worth.

Scorpio is mentioned several times. But wasn't Mars the original ruler of Scorpio, before Pluto was discovered. Also it seems to be a competition thing, so I stand by Aries - although an Aries/Libra polarity seems to be involved. And there we go with Mars AND Venus again. However, I do agree totally that it has a lot to do with the Moon, as Howl said. ( Very astute, Howl.)

Also, one other thing, whenever I think of envy and jealousy, I am always reminded of the story of Cain and Abel in the Bible. Any thoughts on that one?

I hope all of you enjoyed following the pinball game in my mind as I tried to unravel this. LOL

 

[astromony]

I think of the reference for envy to one of the "Deadly sins." These are not Biblical but originate after. I guess the point is to be grateful for what we have or so. There's also lust, sloth,vengeance,pride. I can't remember any more.

 

[23]

Well pride is Leo
Sloth would be Tau or Libra I'd say
Gluttony - maybe Sag?
Avarice - Cap?

Just thoughts off the top of my head

 

[Howl]

Okay then, I get jealous, but not often envious, because I believe that I deserve anything that I could ever want (If I don't happen to get it, then that's a different thing ) The only times I remember feeling envious over are stupid things, like the fact that one of my close friends is stunningly gorgeous in a particular way that I will never be, and that a guy I liked had an intractable crush on her. Dammit

Actually, jealousy began for me with having a twin brother. If you wish to see two people compete pointlessly over things that they wouldn't want if the other didn't have, then check out some pre-adolescant twins.

My mother must have been very patient. It must have been trying to endure arguments over who had the most cordial in their glass, who sat in the front seat of the car last, or first, or deserved to, or who was on the phone too long and could be made to hang up . Oh my oh my, it's funny now. I can REMEMBER how deadly serious it was that I didn't get less cordial in my glass, or less icecream on my plate. My parents resolved this by ruling that whoever poured, or served, had to choose their serving second. So we started jostling over who was to pour, or serve, and lined up the plates and glasses side by side to ensure that servings were identical, to the millimetre

I guess when the only demonstrable marker of whether you're receiving equal respect, love and recogntion is the amount of peter's triple stripe you get served, then there's likely to be war over icecream.

Yes, my Mars is in the Sibling house (3H) in Virgo (that explains the measuring!!)

Don't get me wrong, we get along excellently (now). I suppose that this was part of the process of differentiating from being 'the twins', to being two separate adults of different sex with different life directions. Our relationship became much easier, and jealousy is no longer a factor as adults. Note that we have our natal moons in gemini - which might be another descriptor of the feeling of sibling rivalry.

 

[Howl]

Huh, something has just occurred to me. Not so related to this thread, but I'm going to put it here anyway

I'm thinking about my third house. I have Virgo Mars in the 3H, near the cusp. As a child, this was reflected in my competitive nature, which was only really brought out with my twin.

I also have Saturn and Pluto in Libra in the 3H. Could it be that Saturn (authority) closely linked to Pluto (power) represents, among other things, my parent's response to our competitiveness? My parents 'solved' our fighting by imposing (saturn) social rules (libra) that they saw as being fair (libra). I had never thought of this before, but with Saturn and Pluto so close to my Nadir, it could easily be that my parent's reponse to our 'Mars like' twin behaviour is a deep part of my mentality, because it was part of my early conditioning. Equality (libra) is very important to me

It became more complex because as we grew up, we got different rules. As a young woman I got one set of rules, and as a young man he got a different set. There was not longer jealousy, as such, because we were differentiated. I resented my own set of rules, but despite what Freud would say, I never remember envying my brother I just resented the rules for existing, and mine for being unfair!

I've read that when planets conjunct Nadir (saturn, pluto) their principle and that of the sign (libra) are 'deeply ingrained', but I have never before 'seen' how clearly this might have worked for me. Hah, then I grew up to study sociology, politics and the humanities, ALL about social power, justice, fairness, and the individual within social relationships. I focus a fair bit on gender too. I had never considered that link before.... You can have your thread back now

 

[Brooklyn Dave]

What about certain planets (Mars) (Moon) (Venus) in Cancer---can envy be a problem?