Greta Garbo, the mysterious “Swedish sphinx”, and her need for loneliness (and a HUGE 12th house!)

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JunoRising

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Greta Garbo was very famous for her acting career during 1930’s and 1940’s, but every now and then when I hear something about her, it is about her famous quote “I want to be alone”, or regarding the fact she was a “Swedish sphinx” (so evasive and mysterious). So, this led me to her birth chart and look at that huuuge 12th house on it. Besides that and Venus opposite Saturn and square her 12th house Moon, what else would you say explain her need for loneliness and this mysterious vibe of hers?
 

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https://www.biography.com/actors/greta-garbo

The 19-year-old Garbo arrived in America in 1925. Her arrival had come quietly and from the start, she showed a reluctance to deal with the press or reveal anything about her private life. During her first interview, she curtly told reporters, "I was born. I had a mother and father. I went to school. What does it matter?"

:sun:/:mercury:in :virgo::square::mars::sagittarius:
Sun/Mercury in Virgo Square Mars in the 7th.

:mercury::square::jupiter::gemini: in 1st
Also her Mercury tightly square Jupiter in Gemini in the 1st.

That quote of hers above, with her acting abrupt and curt with the reporters, seems very Mercury afflicted in Virgo. lol. She seems impatient, evasive and not very polite considering she was being interviewed about her hit films.



"In many ways Garbo represented a new kind of Hollywood actress, one whose vulnerabilities, sexuality, passion and mystery swirled together to entice both male and female audiences. Additionally, her style changed the course of American fashion, while her reclusive nature (she gave her last American interview in 1927) only fueled the public's fascination with her."

:sun:=:mars:/:pluto:
The Virgo Sun is the apex of a Mars/Pluto opposition.

:sun::trine::moon::taurus: in 12th
All of the above equals ---"one whose vulnerabilities, sexuality, passion and mystery swirled together to entice both male and female audiences."


In 2012, some of Garbo's possessions, including clothing, jewelry and her bed, were sold at auction. Five years later, it was announced that a collection of the movie star's letters would also go up for sale at Sotheby's in London. The 36 letters, written in the 1930s and '40s, described her loneliness in Hollywood, as well as her displeasure over changes made to the plot of The Two-Faced Woman, her final screen role.

There is another mention of her 'loneliness' in Hollywood. She seemed to feel like a fish out of water in Hollywood.


:moon:in 12th
:venus::leo::opposition::saturn::aquarius:
Her 12th house Moon is the mid-point of her Venus/Saturn opposition.

Her Venus in Leo beauty and elegance is opposed to her reticence and aversion to such indulgence? And the Moon as the T-square triggers that 12th house urge to hide out and escape the limelight?
 
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Greta Garbo was very famous for her acting career during 1930’s and 1940’s, but every now and then when I hear something about her, it is about her famous quote “I want to be alone”, or regarding the fact she was a “Swedish sphinx” (so evasive and mysterious). So, this led me to her birth chart and look at that huuuge 12th house on it. Besides that and Venus opposite Saturn and square her 12th house Moon, what else would you say explain her need for loneliness and this mysterious vibe of hers?
Hello JunoRising, thank you for starting this thread. I adore Greta Garbo.
Yes, she turned the words "I want to be alone" into an iconic phrase for women.
Actually, I've never heard the "Swedish sphinx", although it does fit her.
Honestly, I don't think Frater was correcting your language.
He is correct, she wanted solitude, but I don't believe she was "lonely".
She was internally a tormented and restless soul.
If I recall correctly she ended her last years alone by choice on the French Riviera with a paid female companion.
There were hints that she was drawn to women, but during her time it was a topic that was too taboo to touch, and it was never clarified.
It may be true, but it may also stem from her masculine style of dressing.
In one film she played a woman who masqueraded as a man. And she was exquisite doing it!
She had numerous love affairs, her venus/saturn opposition made her perhaps illusive, men never felt they could really possess her.
Her beauty was ethereal, you always saw it but it was lofty, on a pedestal, which is probably a result of the Leo venus.
She was luxurious even in slacks and a woolen jumper.
The taurus moon loves sensuality, luxury like a cat purring on a fur rug.
Moon in the 12th wants and needs solitude.
Because of the high altitude at her birthplace, the whole sign of Taurus is intercepted in the 12th house, which is unusually wide. Moon literally has no way out, no way to reach the external world.
This might well be the reason for her impatience with what she considered invasions of her private life. She was a very intelligent woman, but very private.
And this enhanced her fascination.
So near yet so far. You could approach her physically but could never reach her soul.

:sun:=:mars:/:pluto:
The Virgo Sun is the apex of a Mars/Pluto opposition.
Katydid, a trine or a square or a sextile can have an apex, but I don't think an opposition can have an apex.
It does have, as you later write, a T-square, and it has a midpoint.
 
Hello JunoRising, thank you for starting this thread. I adore Greta Garbo.
Yes, she turned the words "I want to be alone" into an iconic phrase for women.
Actually, I've never heard the "Swedish sphinx", although it does fit her.
Honestly, I don't think Frater was correcting your language.
He is correct, she wanted solitude, but I don't believe she was "lonely".
She was internally a tormented and restless soul.
If I recall correctly she ended her last years alone by choice on the French Riviera with a paid female companion.
There were hints that she was drawn to women, but during her time it was a topic that was too taboo to touch, and it was never clarified.
It may be true, but it may also stem from her masculine style of dressing.
In one film she played a woman who masqueraded as a man. And she was exquisite doing it!
She had numerous love affairs, her venus/saturn opposition made her perhaps illusive, men never felt they could really possess her.
Her beauty was ethereal, you always saw it but it was lofty, on a pedestal, which is probably a result of the Leo venus.
She was luxurious even in slacks and a woolen jumper.
The taurus moon loves sensuality, luxury like a cat purring on a fur rug.
Moon in the 12th wants and needs solitude.
Because of the high altitude at her birthplace, the whole sign of Taurus is intercepted in the 12th house, which is unusually wide. Moon literally has no way out, no way to reach the external world.
This might well be the reason for her impatience with what she considered invasions of her private life. She was a very intelligent woman, but very private.
And this enhanced her fascination.
So near yet so far. You could approach her physically but could never reach her soul.
Very nice description of her enigmatic energy.
Katydid, a trine or a square or a sextile can have an apex, but I don't think an opposition can have an apex.
It does have, as you later write, a T-square, and it has a midpoint.
You're right---I meant mid-point.
 
Some wikipedia details...and her chart.

Natal 12th house moon ruling the 4th house of home, family, roots.
Moon squares venus in the 2nd (finances) of the 4th, opposing saturn. Poverty.


"As a child her family was very poor.

The family was impoverished and lived in a three-bedroom cold-water flat at Blekingegatan No. 32. They raised their three children in a working-class district regarded as the city's slum. Garbo later recalled:

It was eternally grey—those long winter's nights. My father would be sitting in a corner, scribbling figures on a newspaper. On the other side of the room, my mother is repairing ragged old clothes, sighing. We children would be talking in very low voices, or just sitting silently. We were filled with anxiety, as if there were danger in the air. Such evenings are unforgettable for a sensitive girl, but also for a girl like me. Where we lived, all the houses and apartments looked alike, their ugliness matched by everything surrounding us.

Natal moon rules the 3rd of early learning, Neptune in the 3rd.
"Garbo was a shy daydreamer as a child...She disliked school and preferred to play alone"
Natal 7th house ruler jupiter conjunct ascendent. Literally speaking through the partner. Mars in 7th sextile creative venus in the 5th, and sextile saturn in 11th of friends.

She starred in three silent films with the leading man John Gilbert About their first movie, Flesh and the Devil (1926), silent film expert Kevin Brownlow states that "she gave a more erotic performance than Hollywood had ever seen."Their on-screen chemistry soon translated into an off-camera romance, and by the end of the production, they began living together. The film also marked a turning point in Garbo's career. Vieira wrote: "Audiences were mesmerized by her beauty and titillated by her love scenes with Gilbert. She was a sensation."
Ascendent ruler mercury in the 5th of creative expression, square the ascendent.
Film historian and critic David Denby argues that Garbo introduced a subtlety of expression to the art of silent acting and that its effect on audiences cannot be exaggerated. She "lowers her head to look calculating or flutters her lips," he says. "Her face darkens with a slight tightening around the eyes and mouth; she registers a passing idea with a contraction of her brows or a drooping of her lids. Worlds turned on her movements."
She prohibited visitors—including the studio brass—from her sets and demanded that black flats or screens surround her to prevent extras and technicians from watching her. When asked about these eccentric requirements, she said: "If I am by myself, my face will do things I cannot do with it otherwise."

Sun in 6th of work exactly squares the 2nd cusp of earnings, intercepted scorpio in 6th co-ruled by pluto near the 2nd cusp.
Jupiter, ruler of 8th of sexual expression conjunct ascendent, square ascendent ruler mercury in 5th of love affairs.

in Queen Christina (1933), her salary would be increased to $300,000 per film. ... (as leading man) Garbo preferred her former co-star and lover John Gilbert. ... Queen Christina became ... the highest-grossing film of the year. The movie, however, met with controversy upon its release; censors objected to the scenes in which Garbo disguised herself as a man and kissed a female co-star
Venus in 5th opposing saturn of old age.
Garbo also worried about her age. "Time leaves traces on our small faces and bodies. It's not the same anymore, being able to pull it off."

Moon in 12th
From the early days of her career, Garbo avoided industry social functions, preferring to spend her time alone or with friends.
Midheaven ruler saturn exactly conjunct South Node in 11th.
She never signed autographs or answered fan mail, and rarely gave interviews. Nor did she ever appear at Oscar ceremonies, even when she was nominated. Her aversion to publicity and the press was undeniably genuine.
Picky virgo sun and mercury, 12th house moon in wide opposition to natal sun.
In an interview in 1928, she explained that her desire for privacy began when she was a child, stating, "As early as I can remember, I have wanted to be alone. I've always been moody. I detest crowds, I don't like many people...In 1937, in a letter to her friend, Austrian actress and writer Salka Viertel, she wrote: "I go nowhere, see no one... It is hard and sad to be alone, but sometimes it's even more difficult to be with someone..."
Thanks JunoRising
She was routinely referred to by the press as the "Swedish Sphinx".
Neptune in 3rd
She is closely associated with a line from Grand Hotel, one which the American Film Institute in 2005 voted the 30th-most memorable movie quote of all time,"I want to be alone; I just want to be alone." The theme was a running gag in her movies that began during the silent period. According to a 1955 piece in LIFE magazine, Garbo explained that she'd said: "I want to be let alone", not "I want to be alone".
Venus in Leo
After starring in Torrent (1926), she became known as "the Art Deco Diva" She favored men's shoes and clothes and her style has been described as "trench coat, simple shoes, shirts, cigarette pants, slouch hat and big sunglasses. Garbo has been credited with popularizing the "slouchy hat."
In 1977, Garbo wrote to Frederick Sands: "I am forever running away from something or somebody"... "Unconsciously I have always known that I was not destined for real and lasting happiness."


Mars in 7th house.
Garbo never married, had no children, and lived alone for most of her adult life. Her most famous romance was with her frequent MGM co-star John Gilbert, with whom she lived intermittently in 1926 and 1927.

7th house ruler conjunct ascendent of personal expression.
Soon after their romance began, Gilbert began helping her develop acting skills on the set and teaching her how to behave like a star, socialize at parties, and deal with studio bosses.


Uranus in 8th of sex.
Recent biographers and others have speculated that because it can be assumed she had intimate relationships with women as well as men, Garbo was bisexual, possibly even "predominantly lesbian". In 1927, Garbo was introduced to stage and screen actress Lilyan Tashman, and they may have had an affair, according to some writers. Silent film star Louise Brooks stated that she and Garbo had a brief liaison the following year.
In 1931, Garbo befriended the writer and acknowledged lesbian Mercedes de Acosta, whom she met through Salka Viertel, and, according to Garbo's and de Acosta's biographers, began a sporadic and volatile romance.
 
Hello JunoRising, thank you for starting this thread. I adore Greta Garbo.
Yes, she turned the words "I want to be alone" into an iconic phrase for women.
Actually, I've never heard the "Swedish sphinx", although it does fit her.
Honestly, I don't think Frater was correcting your language.
He is correct, she wanted solitude, but I don't believe she was "lonely".
sorry for that (and for @FraterAC too). in my language, “loneliness” and “solitude” are practically the same word and the context makes them different. so I might have made a mistake there.

She was internally a tormented and restless soul.
If I recall correctly she ended her last years alone by choice on the French Riviera with a paid female companion.
There were hints that she was drawn to women, but during her time it was a topic that was too taboo to touch, and it was never clarified.
It may be true, but it may also stem from her masculine style of dressing.
In one film she played a woman who masqueraded as a man. And she was exquisite doing it!
She had numerous love affairs, her venus/saturn opposition made her perhaps illusive, men never felt they could really possess her.
Her beauty was ethereal, you always saw it but it was lofty, on a pedestal, which is probably a result of the Leo venus.
She was luxurious even in slacks and a woolen jumper.
The taurus moon loves sensuality, luxury like a cat purring on a fur rug.
Moon in the 12th wants and needs solitude.
Because of the high altitude at her birthplace, the whole sign of Taurus is intercepted in the 12th house, which is unusually wide. Moon literally has no way out, no way to reach the external world.
This might well be the reason for her impatience with what she considered invasions of her private life. She was a very intelligent woman, but very private.
And this enhanced her fascination.
So near yet so far. You could approach her physically but could never reach her soul.
I agree with @katydid, you made a beautiful and poetical description of her energy, indeed. thank you for this. I identify a lot with her, as I’ve been called “sphinx” and “Greta Garbo” since my youth.
 
sorry for that (and for @FraterAC too). in my language, “loneliness” and “solitude” are practically the same word and the context makes them different. so I might have made a mistake there.


I agree with @katydid, you made a beautiful and poetical description of her energy, indeed. thank you for this. I identify a lot with her, as I’ve been called “sphinx” and “Greta Garbo” since my youth.
Do you find similarities between your chart and hers?
 
Do you find similarities between your chart and hers?
Only regarding the Moon in the 12th, although mine is pretty close to the ASC. I also have a wide opposition between Venus and Saturn, and my Venus is also in the 12H in a wide conjunction with Moon, so I'm very fond of solitude (although sometimes it sucks). and I hardly talk about my relationships and love life, unless it's someone I trust a lot. so I think that is why I'm kind of a sphinx, maybe..
 
Moon in the 12th
Sometimes we are particularly cued into a public personality because of links between their chart and ours.

Apologies. I was not correcting your English as much as making a point for anyone on the forum who might need to hear that.
Here's a chart that might be easier to see.
View attachment 117145
Frater, I'm puzzled about this chart. Aries and libra don't show up, exception being the Vertex in libra. But these signs don't appear In the houses.
How did that happen?
 
Greta Garbo was very famous for her acting career during 1930’s and 1940’s, but every now and then when I hear something about her, it is about her famous quote “I want to be alone”, or regarding the fact she was a “Swedish sphinx” (so evasive and mysterious). So, this led me to her birth chart and look at that huuuge 12th house on it. Besides that and Venus opposite Saturn and square her 12th house Moon, what else would you say explain her need for loneliness and this mysterious vibe of hers?
She may possibly been hung up over her ageing and losing her looks, with that t-square with Moon, Venus and Saturn. With knowing that she could never hope to be as beguiling as she had been in her earlier movies. She may have preferred to remain immortalised in the images of her that remained in her earlier movies.

Now my eye turns to that Mars opposing her Uranus and Pluto, and I wonder if there isn't a midpoint that ties these closer together. I can't tell from the image of the chart I see here. But the question for me is, jad she ever been stalked, or somehow hot caught up in a situation with an admirer who presented some danger to her?

Her Sun is square Pluto, which might complicate things there. She might have felt the need to defend herself as a brand so speak, against any kind of compromise, or imposition on her autonomy.
 
She may possibly been hung up over her ageing and losing her looks, with that t-square with Moon, Venus and Saturn. With knowing that she could never hope to be as beguiling as she had been in her earlier movies. She may have preferred to remain immortalised in the images of her that remained in her earlier movies.
Very possible. It was the time when ageing actresses wouldn't be considered for "ageing" roles, and were simply out of work.
Also, her image as one of the most beautiful women in the world was at risk

This T-square was active in her language skills because of the moon ruling her 3rd house and saturn her 9th house.
Her career began and reached success in silent films, with 2 direct consequences.
One, she didn't need to use English for her acting!
Two, she had to necessarily develop her skills of communicating emotion with her eyes and facial expressions. And she became very good at this.
Her first talking film wasn't until she was 25 years old, and the studio was afraid her heavy accent would be a problem, although the film was publicised as "Garbo talks".
Instead, her accent became part of her allure. It was sensual and exotic for the American public. And she remained a top box office draw, a very successful one and very profitable for the studio.

"Despite her status as a star of silent films, the studio feared that her Swedish accent might impair her work in sound, and delayed the shift for as long as possible. MGM itself was the last Hollywood studio to convert to sound, and Garbo's last silent film, ...was also the studio's. Despite the fears, Garbo became one of the biggest box-office draws of the next decade."

Saturn ruling her 9th house was responsible for her not continuing her education.

"At the age of 13, Garbo graduated from school, and, typical of a Swedish working-class girl at that time, she did not attend high school. She later acknowledged a resulting inferiority complex."

Note the cusps of the 9th and the 1st are inconjunct.


Mars opposing her Uranus and Pluto
Please check this out again Nexus, you might have meant the wide T-square of mars/pluto squaring sun.
Uranus is one of her supporting energies, it's part of the grand trine with mercury and jupiter that includes her 8th of sex, 1st of personal presentation and 5th of creativity.

As far as stalkers, I've never seen any mention of this.

The sun/pluto square probably played out in her long time unconventional relationship with the actor John Gilbert.
Pluto's energy tends to come and go in spurts.
She ended her friendship with him abruptly when he had an affair with a starlet, signalling betrayal (pluto as ruler of scorpio doesn't forgive this).

And of course, pluto wants power. Sun square pluto, over the top.

"I was in love with him," she said. "But I froze. I was afraid he would tell me what to do (if they were married) and boss me. I always wanted to be the boss.""
 
Sometimes we are particularly cued into a public personality because of links between their chart and ours.


Frater, I'm puzzled about this chart. Aries and libra don't show up, exception being the Vertex in libra. But these signs don't appear In the houses.
How did that happen?
Greta Garbo was born in Stockholm, which is located at 59 N 20. At that latitude, at that sidereal time, using Placidus houses, Aries-Taurus and Libra-Scorpio are all intercepted in the 12th/6th houses.
I checked a couple of other posted charts for her, and they showed calculations similar to what I put up.
Other house systems may give different results, but the MC is still going to be Capricorn 20:51 and the Ascendant Gemini 05:20, so there will still be some significant asymmetry with the houses; even if one uses Whole Signs or Equal House, the difference between the MC and Asc is going to be considerable.
David Cochrane would say the anti-Vertex in this chart would have approximately 85% influence, and the calculated Ascendant (as shown) would have only about a 15% influence. So based on that, Ms. Garbo would be 85% Aries 19:30 influence on how she projected herself, and 15% Gemini 05:20.
The anti-Vertex is in the 12th house; I don't know if one should make anything of that or not.
 
Greta Garbo was born in Stockholm, which is located at 59 N 20. At that latitude, at that sidereal time, using Placidus houses, Aries-Taurus and Libra-Scorpio are all intercepted in the 12th/6th houses.
I checked a couple of other posted charts for her, and they showed calculations similar to what I put up.
Other house systems may give different results, but the MC is still going to be Capricorn 20:51 and the Ascendant Gemini 05:20, so there will still be some significant asymmetry with the houses; even if one uses Whole Signs or Equal House, the difference between the MC and Asc is going to be considerable.
David Cochrane would say the anti-Vertex in this chart would have approximately 85% influence, and the calculated Ascendant (as shown) would have only about a 15% influence. So based on that, Ms. Garbo would be 85% Aries 19:30 influence on how she projected herself, and 15% Gemini 05:20.
The anti-Vertex is in the 12th house; I don't know if one should make anything of that or not.
Thanks, but it's not the accuracy of the chart in question, but the symbols for Aries and libra don't appear.
 
Thanks, but it's not the accuracy of the chart in question, but the symbols for Aries and libra don't appear.
Just a vagary of the software I'm using, in this case Halloran's AstroDeluxe.
The interesting point to me is this chart represents an opportunity to test Cochrane's notion of the influence of the anti-Vertex in cases of extreme latitude. Did it affect this native of not? Was it a sensitive point in her horoscope or not?
 
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Has anyone mentioned the exalted Neptune in the 3rd house of communication, sesquiquadrate Saturn+South Node? Possibly indicating mysterious and highly sensitive (Neptune) introverted (Cancer) and inhibited or restrained (Saturn, amplified by the NN) communications.
Venus in the 5th in Leo is partile trine the anti-Vertex (a stand-in for the Ascendant?); also forming a grand trine with Mars (to put it plainly, sex appeal or attraction). Pluto is also sextile the anti-Vertex and Venus, and in opposition to Mars, adding much subterranean desire-force to this kite configuration. Certainly she was considered a great beauty and highly magnetic.
 
Has anyone mentioned the exalted Neptune in the 3rd house of communication, sesquiquadrate Saturn+South Node? Possibly indicating mysterious and highly sensitive (Neptune) introverted (Cancer) and inhibited or restrained (Saturn, amplified by the NN) communications.
Her extraordinary ability to "communicate" via film (neptune).
 
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