Hellenistic/Medieval/Traditional only: Is Saturn more evil/problematic than Mars in this Daychart?

[geminimercury]

This is the EXACT transit time of the death, it interesting how Transit Pluto Sextile Birth natal Mercury EXACT at 0 orb, this is a one time life event as Pluto take 248 years to orbit around. His birth Scorpio Pluto is moot to me, but Transit Pluto with South Node with Saturn and all Rx too.
Transit Leo planets Sun Venus Mars all the Red lines Square Natal birth Scorpio planets. Transit Mars Square Natal Mars exact 0 orb. Transit Sun Square Natal Saturn exact 0 orb.
Transit Jupiter Opposition Natal Moon 0 orb.

Firdaria age 35 was Moon/Mars, the Moon handed over to Mars. Profection Lord age 35 was Mercury 12th house.

 

[JUPITERASC]

This is the EXACT transit time of the death, it interesting how Transit Pluto Sextile Birth natal Mercury EXACT at 0 orb, this is a one time life event as Pluto take 248 years to orbit around. His birth Scorpio Pluto is moot to me, but Transit Pluto with South Node

Your post is not traditional if it includes the outers
If your post treats any of them as astrological planets,
it belongs in either Modern Astrology or any of the other boards

If you want to post to ask why traditional astrologers don't use those planets,
do so anywhere but this board or Modern Astrology,
or search the other boards for an existing discussion on that.
It is not respectful to come into someone's house and demand why they don't do things your way.


https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...ase-read-before-posting-on-this-board.120411/

with Saturn and all Rx too.
Transit Leo planets Sun Venus Mars all the Red lines Square Natal birth Scorpio planets. Transit Mars Square Natal Mars exact 0 orb. Transit Sun Square Natal Saturn exact 0 orb.
Transit Jupiter Opposition Natal Moon 0 orb.

Firdaria age 35 was Moon/Mars, the Moon handed over to Mars. Profection Lord age 35 was Mercury 12th house.

 

[IRIS70]

This is the EXACT transit time of the death, it interesting how Transit Pluto Sextile Birth natal Mercury EXACT at 0 orb, this is a one time life event as Pluto take 248 years to orbit around. His birth Scorpio Pluto is moot to me, but Transit Pluto with South Node with Saturn and all Rx too.
Transit Leo planets Sun Venus Mars all the Red lines Square Natal birth Scorpio planets. Transit Mars Square Natal Mars exact 0 orb. Transit Sun Square Natal Saturn exact 0 orb.
Transit Jupiter Opposition Natal Moon 0 orb.

Firdaria age 35 was Moon/Mars, the Moon handed over to Mars. Profection Lord age 35 was Mercury 12th house.

Τhanks for the chart, I am sorry for the chart owner, he was so young!

It is spectacular that at the time of his death both Firdaria rulers were activated natal Moon opposite t Jupiter and Mars square natal Mars exactly, t Moon conj natal Mats too.

You are right, at age 35 he was in a 12th house profection year, a bad house and Mercury is the LoY. However, there is Moon in 12th, so Mercury hands down ruler-ship to Moon, no wonder Moon is so active and maltreated by the out of sect malefic. Also note that t Mars is opposite natal Venus, ruler of IC.

 

[geminimercury]

@IRIS70, thank you Mrs Iris70, sorry I wasn't clear enough in my above post of the Transit, native is still alive, in age 35 which is 12th house Profection, native lost his father and his own child, both in the same year in 2019.
That Transit chart was at the exact time when his father took his last breath. I also have another chart of the exact time when his child died too.

I should know enough Hellensitic to know that it not just only Transit at a specific moment, but also Firdaria and Solar Return and monthly return too.
I just wonder if the Transit chart above show anything about his father death, as that was the time when his father died. Also have another chart for his child death too, both happen in the same year 2019 months apart.

But thank you, you answered my question.

 

[IRIS70]

I just wonder if the Transit chart above show anything about his father death, as that was the time when his father died.

Οh, sorry, I admit that I did not go through each post...

But it is good that the young man did not lose his own life!

In answer to the question above, as I said in my previous post, t Mars is EXACTLY opposite n Venus, ruler of IC-4th related to father/roots.

Also have another chart for his child death too

Oh, it seems that this young man is pretty unfortunate! THAT is a VERY sad thing to happen! I guess the child was very little. Nothing compares to the death of your own child, the pain is excruciating! I am sorry to hear about this, but I'd love to have a look at that chart too! Please, go ahead and thank you! Death charts amaze me!

Talking of a child's death, it is interesting that he has Pluto, Saturn and Mars in 5th of children, Scorpio...his natal "promise". Both malefics gathered!

 

[JUPITERASC]

Οh, sorry, I admit that I did not go through each post...

But it is good that the young man did not lose his own life!

In answer to the question above, as I said in my previous post, t Mars is EXACTLY opposite n Venus, ruler of IC-4th related to father/roots.

Oh, it seems that this young man is pretty unfortunate! THAT is a VERY sad thing to happen! I guess the child was very little. Nothing compares to the death of your own child, the pain is excruciating! I am sorry to hear about this, but I'd love to have a look at that chart too! Please, go ahead and thank you! Death charts amaze me!

Talking of a child's death, it is interesting that he has Pluto, Saturn and Mars in 5th of children, Scorpio...his natal "promise". Both malefics gathered!

Your post is not traditional if it includes the outers
If your post treats any of them as astrological planets,
it belongs in either Modern Astrology or any of the other boards

If you want to post to ask why traditional astrologers don't use those planets,
do so anywhere but this board or Modern Astrology,
or search the other boards for an existing discussion on that.
It is not respectful to come into someone's house and demand why they don't do things your way.


https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...ase-read-before-posting-on-this-board.120411/

.

 

[geminimercury]

I want to share this as I study Hellenistic, this is what Valens and Hellenistic text translation books said about children in a nativity (a person chart):
This literally come true with our child, our toddler died. Valens is AMAZING.!

[[ --- The Moon, Jupiter and Venus conjunct together are givers of off-springs., will promise children.
--- MERCURY acts, according to aspects and position, If Mercury Oriental (rises before the Sun) will give children, If Mercury Occidental (rises after the Sun) will denies children. Yep. His Mercury rises after the Sun, occidental.

--- Malefics (Mars and Saturn) in 5th house nearly always caused barrenness/childless, and if a child born, the child either too delicate to live, or if reared cause endless trouble. Yep. He has Scorpio Mars, Scorpio Saturn, Scorpio Pluto all in 5th house. Our child born, but died before age 2
--- IF Benefics (Jupiter and Venus conjunct) in 5th house will bring children and much pleasure through them. Yep. There no Benefic in his 5th house, just a Stellium of Masculine Malefics planets.

--- The Lot of Children must be examined; if afflicted by (Malefics) Saturn and Mars, they caused childleness, or loss of children. BUT if the Lot of Children help by (Benefic) Jupiter they cause fine offspring. Yep. His Lot of children is Taurus, which Opposition his 3 planets in Scorpio.
--- Therefore it necessary to example the Ruler of the Lot of Children. So if the Ruler of your Lot of Children has Malefics (Mars or Saturn) aspect it, it will destroys children. Yep, the Ruler of his Lot of Children is Venus and Venus is abuse and Square by Scorpio Mars, Venus also Square by her own Ruler Scorpio Saturn.

--- For female nativities: the Moon in the places of Mercury, and Venus in a masculine sign with Malefic Saturn in hard aspect, and Saturn as the Ruler of that house, will cause chilliness, and destroy those who already born. Yep. His Moon is in Masculine Mercury sign Gemini. His Venus is also in a Masculine sign Aquarius and in hard aspect Square by BOTH Scorpio Mars and Scorpio Saturn. And Yep. Ruler of that house his 8th house is Saturn.

--- If Saturn and Mars at MC, or one at MC and other at IC, bring childlessness, unless a Benefic (Jupiter or Venus) involve in some aspect to mitigate. ]]

It literally come true. I have come to term with it, it just was not meant to be for us to have a child. At least we still have each others and grow old together, together 14 years, married 12 years, married at age 28 when Mars was the Profection Lord of that year.

 

[geminimercury]

Mrs. @IRIS70
Can I have your professional eyes on this one question, I guess I need validation that my finding is correct, can you tell me if you see the same thing as me.

In 2019 (age 35 Profection year), when BOTH his biological father and biological child died, in the SAME Solar Return year, it clearly Solar Mars trigger it in the Solar Return.

Let me show you the Solar Return of 2019, you see how Solar Return Taurus Mars is in 12th house at 16 deg Opposition his Natal birth Scorpio Stellium where his Scorpio Saturn 16 deg in 5th house exactly at 0 orb? (Solar Return pic below)
EXACT 0 orb Opposition. EXACT. Solar Return Taurus Mars trigger that Natal birth Scorpio Saturn. I even box it for you to see at the end in the aspect table, how do you explain that Mars is a Benefic? That huge red line in bold go across the chart, 12th house of losses Opposition 5th house of children.

It Solar Mars Trigger Natal Saturn wasn't it? Solar Return, that BOLD Red line of Solar Mars Opposition Natal Saturn EXACTLY at 0 orb, Mars clearly can't be innocent in this.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I want to share this as I study Hellenistic, this is what Valens and Hellenistic text translation books said about children in a nativity (a person chart):
This literally come true with our child, our toddler died. Valens is AMAZING.!

[[ --- The Moon, Jupiter and Venus conjunct together are givers of off-springs., will promise children.
--- MERCURY acts, according to aspects and position, If Mercury Oriental (rises before the Sun) will give children, If Mercury Occidental (rises after the Sun) will denies children. Yep. His Mercury rises after the Sun, occidental.

--- Malefics (Mars and Saturn) in 5th house nearly always caused barrenness/childless, and if a child born, the child either too delicate to live, or if reared cause endless trouble. Yep. He has Scorpio Mars, Scorpio Saturn, Scorpio Pluto all in 5th house. Our child born, but died before age 2
--- IF Benefics (Jupiter and Venus conjunct) in 5th house will bring children and much pleasure through them. Yep. There no Benefic in his 5th house, just a Stellium of Masculine Malefics planets.

Your post is not traditional if it includes the outers
If your post treats any of them as astrological planets,
it belongs in either Modern Astrology or any of the other boards

If you want to post to ask why traditional astrologers don't use those planets,
do so anywhere but this board or Modern Astrology,
or search the other boards for an existing discussion on that.
It is not respectful to come into someone's house and demand why they don't do things your way.


https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...ase-read-before-posting-on-this-board.120411/

.

--- The Lot of Children must be examined; if afflicted by (Malefics) Saturn and Mars, they caused childleness, or loss of children. BUT if the Lot of Children help by (Benefic) Jupiter they cause fine offspring. Yep. His Lot of children is Taurus, which Opposition his 3 planets in Scorpio.
--- Therefore it necessary to example the Ruler of the Lot of Children. So if the Ruler of your Lot of Children has Malefics (Mars or Saturn) aspect it, it will destroys children. Yep, the Ruler of his Lot of Children is Venus and Venus is abuse and Square by Scorpio Mars, Venus also Square by her own Ruler Scorpio Saturn.

--- For female nativities: the Moon in the places of Mercury, and Venus in a masculine sign with Malefic Saturn in hard aspect, and Saturn as the Ruler of that house, will cause chilliness, and destroy those who already born. Yep. His Moon is in Masculine Mercury sign Gemini. His Venus is also in a Masculine sign Aquarius and in hard aspect Square by BOTH Scorpio Mars and Scorpio Saturn. And Yep. Ruler of that house his 8th house is Saturn.

--- If Saturn and Mars at MC, or one at MC and other at IC, bring childlessness, unless a Benefic (Jupiter or Venus) involve in some aspect to mitigate. ]]

It literally come true. I have come to term with it, it just was not meant to be for us to have a child. At least we still have each others and grow old together, together 14 years, married 12 years, married at age 28 when Mars was the Profection Lord of that year.

 

[IRIS70]

Mrs. @IRIS70
Can I have your professional eyes on this one question, I guess I need validation that my finding is correct, can you tell me if you see the same thing as me.

In 2019 (age 35 Profection year), when BOTH his biological father and biological child died, in the SAME Solar Return year, it clearly Solar Mars trigger it in the Solar Return.

Let me show you the Solar Return of 2019, you see how Solar Return Taurus Mars is in 12th house at 16 deg Opposition his Natal birth Scorpio Stellium where his Scorpio Saturn 16 deg in 5th house exactly at 0 orb? (Solar Return pic below)
EXACT 0 orb Opposition. EXACT. Solar Return Taurus Mars trigger that Natal birth Scorpio Saturn. I even box it for you to see at the end in the aspect table, how do you explain that Mars is a Benefic? That huge red line in bold go across the chart, 12th house of losses Opposition 5th house of children.

It Solar Mars Trigger Natal Saturn wasn't it? Solar Return, that BOLD Red line of Solar Mars Opposition Natal Saturn EXACTLY at 0 orb, Mars clearly can't be innocent in this.

I can certainly see the exact opposition of SR Mars opposite n Saturn with 0 degree orb. Yes, it triggered n Saturn.

how do you explain that Mars is a Benefic

?? Mars a Benefic? How come? Mars is NEVER a Benefic! It is just in Domicile in natal, but out of sect. Being in Domicile does not mean that it is a Benefic. Is it me, or you that does not understand something?

 

[Bardo]

Hi! Would love to see that chart with the Placidus cusps

 

[geminimercury]

I can certainly see the exact opposition of SR Mars opposite n Saturn with 0 degree orb. Yes, it triggered n Saturn.

Mars a Benefic? How come? Mars is NEVER a Benefic! It is just in Domicile in natal, but out of sect. Being in Domicile does not mean that it is a Benefic. Is it me, or you that does not understand something?

I understand Mrs. IRIS70

It just there another member in here commented in this thread said Mars is a Benefic in this chart, but I don't think so, just because Mars is Domicile in his own home sign, that does not make him a Benefic, he won't stop being the Out of Sect Malefic Mars just because he is Domicile.

Thank you for answer my question, I just need validation that I read the Solar Return chart right, that it Solar Mars that Opposition Natal birth Saturn Exactly at 0 orb trigger the events (death of native father and native child).

Thank you.

I'm actually on Saturn camp here, Saturn is in a Mars sign, sure, Scorpio Saturn do not have the power like a Scorpio Mars whom Domicile, but Saturn is In Sect in a Daychart, and I still trust Saturn is a JUSTICE planet, even in the sign Scorpio Rule by a Domicile Scorpio Mars. Saturn is still a karma and justice planet in my eyes, I actually have faith in Saturn than Mars.

And I don't care Mars is under the horizon, he still Out of Sect to me, even the PlanetDance software clearly put Mars is the Out of Sect Greatest MOST Malefic planet. Sure it didn't say Saturn.

And Mars severely abuse Venus in that natal chart, he in 5th house Rises BEFORE Venus in 8th house, both by sign and by house, and he in the stronger house than Venus (btw 8th house is an Idle house in Hellenistic, and Aversion to Ascendant), while 5th house is a Succedent house Trine Directly the Ascendant.
Mars dominated the Square. Ascendant is 1st house rises first before all, the planets that rises first are the Scorpio planets in 5th house way before the 8th house Aquarius rises, that Venus do NOT rise before Mars. And she has no power in this chart, being in Mars Bound/Term, and get Square by Mars EXACTLY at 0 orb, even her Ruler Saturn also Square her but wider orb 8 orb.

Venus do not win shi-t in this chart, that Venus can't even move shi-t, being Square by BOTH Malefics and in Mars Bound/term, it Mars that will always win Venus, period, in this specific chart.

@Bardo

Sure, here is the Placids and Whole sign chart with the aspect table. First wheel is Whole sign, second wheel is the Placidus chart. Still the same, same 4 angles, same houses cusps, planets in the houses don't change. Btw, that is a Jupiter 3 orb from 7th house, I count that as a 7th house Jupiter, as even in Placidus modern astrology rule, any planets that 3 orb from the next house count as going into the next house.
But I digress, I study Hellenistic, I don't know about modern.

Placidus is the second wheel.

 

[geminimercury]

I want to leave this here, as I feel 8th house Idle house is not known enough, read clearly what the Astrologer below said about 8th house.

First off, 8th house is an Idle house, Hellensitic clearly say unless there is a planet in 2nd house to counter, if 2nd house is empty then the 8th house is completely Idle. Venus whom Idle in this chart do not have any shi-t power, let alone counter Mars.
Venus is in Mars Bound, period, she has to perform under Mars rules. Venus also Square by Mars EXACTLY at 0 orb, further can't move anywhere, Saturn her Ruler also Square her too.

Ascendant is the most important, Ascendant in Cancer do not see/witness Gemini Air sign Moon or Aquarius Air sign Venus. Ascendant Cancer however can clearly see it Triplicity Ruler water sign Scorpio Mars by a Trine Directly. That alone give Mars alot of power.

Sorry, Venus do not have a say in this chart. The only planet that has a say can counter Mars is Jupiter. My only hope left is Jupiter help the native, as the Asc can see Jupiter by the aspect, and Jupiter even in it Fall rule by Saturn, but Jupiter is still pretty angular and can see EVERYTHING in this chart from where it place in the angle, and Jupiter in it own Bound/term and in it own Decan/face, that will add points back to Jupiter despite being deduct point by being in it Fall.

Ascendant is 1st house, Ascendant Rises first before everything, Ascendant is Cancer, the next planets that Rise are the Scorpio planets. It a long way before it get to Aquarius turn, Aquarius do not rise sh-it before the Cancer Ascendant. I literally laugh at whoever think Venus in this chart has any power over Mars.

 

[Shanti]

I guess if Robert Hand were a contributor of this forum he would not be allowed to post in this
board ? (Using outers as part of his traditional approach).
Is it possible that the rules here is just a little bit too strict ?

Öner Doser student of Robert Zoller would have to be censored as well ?

Chris Brennan ? No way !!!

Is there some kind of middle way aproach here ?

Just saying......I may be wrong ?:

 

[JUPITERASC]

I guess if Robert Hand were a contributor of this forum he would not be allowed to post in this
board ? (Using outers as part of his traditional approach).
Is it possible that the rules here is just a little bit too strict ?
Öner Doser student of Robert Zoller would have to be censored as well ?
Chris Brennan ? No way !!!
Is there some kind of middle way aproach here ?
Just saying......I may be wrong ?:

This is the Traditional Astrology forum. Out of all the different boards in this forum
this one is the home for traditional astrologers.
It was created so that traditional astrologers can discuss traditional astrology with each other
without having to justify it to non-traditionalists
or be interrupted by people disagreeing with traditional perspectives.

Traditional astrologers, welcome home!

If you are not a traditional astrologer, you are welcome as a guest.
Good guests respect the rules of the house.
In this house, the main rule is that all posts must stick to traditional astrology only
Please read the rest of this and make sure that everything you post here is strictly traditional.
If your post is not traditional, it belongs on one of our other boards, not here.

It is not respectful to come into someone's house and demand why they don't do things your way

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...ase-read-before-posting-on-this-board.120411/

.

 

[Bardo]

I think the most malefic here is Mercury, in detriment & fall, closely (!) combust the Sun (even though increasing in light, which is good again), ruler of the Moon, squaring it, so it has power over the native in the worst (not worst, but overall bad) condition, being an evening star and therefore, at least from my limited understanding, not of the sect in favor, in a feminine sign (which is good) in the daylight burned by the sun. Itself being ruled by a Jupiter in fall from an angle, turning Jupiter, the childgiver, literally into the open enemy. Mercury is not only ruling the Moon, but also the 12th house, which is the 8th of the 5th, potentially signifiying the death of children. As astrology is mostly a symbolic language, the horoscope shows a clear picture of a dead child with Moon conjunct the 12th house cusp (and exactly opposite the guy, whose name I'm not allowed to mention here, who had locked his own kids in Hades and is widely known for not being a friend of anyones children - all of that in the most unfortunate places that there are in a horoscope). So, Moon, as the natural ruler of babys, conjunct it's own 12th and 8th of the 5th, with her ruler being in the (almost) worst state and cadent (still though in a place that it has some analogy with, so I would speculate the native has some kind of higher education or otherwise significant 9th house story in his life).

The dodecatemoria reveal a conjunction from Moon and Mercury with Saturn, who is also known for being highly problematic concerning children and childbirth. Saturn is retrograde, literally taking it back.

So all of that speaks a clear language. It's a combination of things. A collection of testimonies.

Mercury is applying to trine Mars in the 5th. Well, I don't know about the concept of overcoming, how valid it is, I do indeed believe it is, but at least here it seems not to have aged well, as the testimonies for a negative outcome are way too overwhelming. Note that Mercury is coming to afflict Mars. Also Saturn and Mars are conjunct anyway so they are blended, and that in itself can only bring trouble in that field of life, no matter their sect or what have you. They are inclined to those things when they are afflicted, and they are, mutually by each other and by a malefic Mercury. Also, Sun and Mercury are reinforcing their conjunction, that I think to be highly relevant as well

Then, Mercurys antiscia is exactly conjunct the 4th, so there is some trouble there, family, fathers, home, homeland

Roots & descendence

So, I'm not a scholar, I haven't read everything under the sky that there is on astrology, please keep that in mind. But conjunction by antiscia and dauds are nothing secondary, they are very relevant

Of course, this is meant to refer to the fifth house, not the whole nativity

 

[DC80]

Is it possible that the rules here is just a little bit too strict ?

No. A traditional astrologer needs only 7 planets and 5 aspects to correctly and accurately read and interpret a chart and make predictions. If you have to invent bizarre aspects in order to jack-hammer an interpretation out of a chart to be what you want it to be you're doing something wrong.

Science is not on your side. If your high school education wasn't substandard you should be able to calculate the force of gravity to learn the outer planets have no effect on Earth or you could go to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory or Lawrence Livermore Labs or NASA to learn the same thing.

Yes, the distance from Sun to Earth is given as an average of 93 Million miles because the 5 traditional planets push and pull on Earth so that sometimes it's 91 Million miles and sometimes 97 Million miles but the outer planets have nothing to do with it.

Someone recently posted a link to the RCA Laboratories study which you should read. The 5 traditional planets emit black-body radiation in the radio frequency range of the electromagnetic spectrum. When they are square or opposition they degrade radio communications on Earth and when conjunct, sextile or trine they enhance radio communications.

What do the outers do? Nothing. Yeah, sure they emit black-body radiation because everything in the universe does but not in the radio frequency range and so they have no effect on long or short wave radio, TV, AM/FM, radars, or cell phone communications but the 5 traditional planets do.

Everything you know about the outers is a lie. The Big Lie is Pluto entered Cancer in 1914 and caused WW I and so someone crammed this whole mystique about Pluto being the harbinger of war and death and destruction down everyone's throats because that is what they wanted you to believe.

Pluto entered Cancer in 1912, not 1914. If you go to the previous Pluto Cancer Ingress in 1668 you got nothing but peace on Earth. So sorry there were no wars or destruction. All you got is 2 wars ended in 1667 and their treaties were signed in 1668 and another war ended 1666, the treaty was signed in 1667 and it went into effect in 1668.

The Pluto Cancer Ingress before that was 1424 and all you got is a minor conflict between England and France that was already in progress and out of that you have 2 minor insignificant battles. Same with all the Pluto Cancer Ingresses before that. No wars, death or destruction.

But then traditionals already knew that because Cancer is neither a human sign nor a violent sign and without the confluence of human/violent signs you cannot have war or death or destruction. Well, you can have death, just not a violent death.

Yes, Robert Hand jumped on the bandwagon with everybody else but like many modern astrologers they are slowly abandoning the outer planets because there's no evidence for it and what is alleged to be evidence is just confirmation bias.

The intellectually honest modern astrologers have gone back to traditional sign rulerships so the outers don't have signs any more and they also say they are not personal planets.

If they're not personal planets then there's no point in using them.

I won't even get into the fact that at every given opportunity moderns have botched chart readings.

Our goal here is strictly traditional techniques and getting up to speed on corrections due to cultural transmission errors and badly translated texts.

 

[geminimercury]

Thank you @Bardo for your input, appreciated.

Just in case anyone don't know, you can check your Dodecatemoria chart here: https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/dodecatemoria-dwadasamsa-chart-astrology-online-calculator
just plug in your birthday info.

Anyhoo, I look at at least 100 Dodecatemoria chart (check it with all your friends and family charts), I check with every one I know charts.
And
I NEVER find one like his, where the Dode Ascendant is in the EXACTLY same degree as Natal birth Mars. He has Dodecatemoria Scorpio Asc 24 degrees EXACT same degrees as his Birth Natal 24 degrees Scorpio Mars. So Natal Mars right on top Conjunction his Dode Asc.
And Dode Moon and Mercury both swallow by Natal birth Saturn.
Mars and Saturn basically has his whole chart in both Natal and Dode. He born in Saturn Day ruler and Saturn hour ruler too. Saturday birth is Saturn day, born at 1:15PM is Saturn hour. His Saturn is in Scorpio rule by his Mars whom Domicile.

 

[geminimercury]

Thank you Bardo and thank @DC80 for all the help and input about native chart, appreciated.

And now I want to answer about there some reading about his chart in the pervious page that is wrong/inaccurate because it does not fit with his life and personality.

1) This is a person who came to America under Political Asylum status when he was a little child when Mars was the Profection Lord of that year. He has been in America for 30+ years and never once step foot back to his Communist homeland. Moon Aversion/Disconnect completely from the Asc turning away from the Asc, permanent settle aboard in foreign land permanently, 12th house is an Asylum theme house too.

2) This person is married LONG time 12 years married and still married, married when Mars was the Profection Lord of that year in Scorpio Profection year, and natal Mars in Scorpio. Native indeed lucky in marriage, a spouse who loves the native unconditionally and willing to do anything for the native, if there anything good in his life is his marriage.

3) This person is a person know what exactly what he wants in life and go after it, whether it jobs, education, and marriage. Native did went to University, so who say his education was interrupt by Mercury they wrong. Native is the one that work 70 hours a week.! to support his grown as-s adult lazy a-s-s spouse who stay home for the past 12 years since marriage that leech off his money as he supporting her 100% financially.

Sorry, Mercury is Trine by a strong Domicile Mars and Mercury Trine by Saturn. Mercury Sextile by Jupiter, Mercury Square by Sun and Moon. Mercury has ALOT of help from all the planets around. If there anything happen to Mercury, all the planets will come to rescue because it all aspects Mercury. So saying this Mercury has no support is wrong.
Tbh, I wouldn't even call this Mercury a weak Mercury, as alot of planets all aspects to help it.

4) Native health is very Mars like this is why . All his life, and I mean all his life since little to adulthood, he has chronic inflammation immune disease, ulcers, abscess, puke out blood, where his own immune system attack his own soft tissues and body. Often cough out red blood and blood clots from ulcers and inflammation.
When Transit Mars enter Scorpio this year right on the 12th of Oct his left lung collapsed, I took him to Emergency Room, CT CAT scan of his chest, found a 5cm tumor mass in his left lung hence cause the lung to collapse and he has blood clots in his lungs.
All his symptoms are Mars symptoms. So saying Mars is a Benefic, sorry, I have a hard time see it.
I have pictures of he vomit out blood clots, if you want to see I can post it. I took pictures so I can show it to the hospital ER room.

5) His hobbies is very Mars like. Very Scorpio Mars, Scorpio Saturn, Scorpio Pluto, all in 5th house. And seem like Saturn need to work harder to contain Mars, as Mars do what the f-ck it wants in this hobby 5th house.

He owns 8 guns, 8 guns, he loves tactical Shotguns and Riffles.
He loves go to outdoor shooting range in the middle of no where and shoot at stationary and moving targets, they have those moving mobile robotic if you want to shoot moving targets, or those clays where it fly up high in the sky and you shoot it .
This is a hobby that he has been doing for 20 years long.

His other hobbies beside guns, are mountain climbing, no not rock climbing, but mountain climbing. Archery bow and arrow. And he loves run long distance routes. Long distance running.

And here, this is just 1 of his 8 guns, so you can see the type of guns he likes to shoot at outdoor shooting range in the middle of no where. I take a picture of his gun and dated with a sticker with my username on it (sahw is my username inMarriageTalk Forum where I been a member in ther for 12 years since I got married, sahw is short for Stay-at-home-wife).

eta: I remove the gun pic


Saturn actually didn't do a good job restraint Mars. Sorry Saturn is Retrograde and 8 orb WIDE Separate from Mars, 8 orb is wide for a slow moving transit Saturn, Separating meaning Saturn separate from Mars, Mars has more power here in the conjunction.

Anyhoo thanks to those who help me in this thread, I just want to understand more of native chart, that all. I know Hellenistic astrology myself, it just there still questions in his life that I still can't find an answer to even use Hellenistic.

 

[DC80]

Mercury is applying to trine Mars in the 5th. Well, I don't know about the concept of overcoming, how valid it is, I do indeed believe it is, but at least here it seems not to have aged well, as the testimonies for a negative outcome are way too overwhelming. Note that Mercury is coming to afflict Mars. Also Saturn and Mars are conjunct anyway so they are blended, and that in itself can only bring trouble in that field of life, no matter their sect or what have you. They are inclined to those things when they are afflicted, and they are, mutually by each other and by a malefic Mercury. Also, Sun and Mercury are reinforcing their conjunction, that I think to be highly relevant as well

The concept of "overcoming" is fraught with transmission and translation errors. It only pertains to squares and only in predictive astrology with transits. It doesn't apply to natal charts. Someone along the way wrongly assumed you could use the technique in natal but they were wrong.

For trines/sextiles it's simply left or right with right being stronger. Mercury is looking back at Mars so it's a right trine. A left trine is only 75% likely, and a right sextile 50% likely and a left sextile 25% likely and if there's a fixed sign in between figure 0%.

9 times out of 10 when the text says "superior" it means by elevation so Mercury being above the horizon is in the superior position relative to Mars below the horizon. The other time and no one makes this clear when/why it should be used is superior by longitude meaning rising time.

Normally when Mercury/Sun are in the same sign it indicates duties subordinate to powerful people; the natives never shine in their activities and while they are clever in council, they always hide their thoughts in deep silence; and they suffer anxiety worried over life and may be filled with superstitious awe and hesitating even in small decisions.

That's actually typical of the vast majority of people because most people answer to somebody but it also assumes no other stars are in the same sign and they're in aversion to all other stars.

Mercury's position relative to Sun changes it up. In a diurnal chart Mercury should be leading Sun and if he were then a leading position in all affairs; natives are able to give orders, are fluent in speech, have good fortune and succeed in their desires and have fortunate children; some may be clergy.

Mercury/Mars trine is not inherently bad so long as both are in favorable places because it produces intelligent people and able to talk themselves out of difficulties, their activities turn out well and give good advice. They often work in sales or clerical jobs at supervisory levels.

You would of course have to modify that based on the actual places, signs, face/term and aspects from other stars.

Mercury/Mars are only bad when conjunct/square/opposing. And it's almost always real bad without the intervention of Benefics.

One thing to note here is Mercury is casting his rays between Saturn/Mars.