Hellenistic/Medieval/Traditional only: Is Saturn more evil/problematic than Mars in this Daychart?

[geminimercury]

btw, this is the screenshot from PlanetDance. ALL the planets Rises BEFORE the Sun in this chart is, counting from 1st house as the Rising, Saturn Mars rises first, then Jupiter, then Venus, which all are Oriental, then the Sun. Then Mercury and Moon rises last which make Mercury and Moon Occidental.
No, I don't see this Mercury is in any way superior than Mars and Saturn as Mercury is Occidental.

And does anyone know about the Masculine and Feminine degree concept in Hellenistic, No, just because Mars is in Scorpio or Jupiter in Capricorn are in feminine sign that doesn't make the degrees feminine, there actually a masculine and feminine degrees list of each zodiac sign. What is this all about?

Traditional chart with Bound/term.

 

[geminimercury]

Let me show this Transit of the exact time of the incident happened, just sharing about astrology with you. Tell me if you see the same thing as me in the transit.

August 1, 2023 at 5:38PM (yes, I noted the time as I know I need to look at the Transit once we get home). And yes, I posted this in Reddit sub right at that night when I was home ask for help read the Transit.

Anyhoo, what happened was:
We were in our car, my husband was driving. We were in no hurry, driving normal, obey the traffic laws, we were just going home. There was a car was rushing (must be in a rush going somewhere, Los Angeles freeway), so this car cut in front of us. My husband let this car cut in front of our car, as we were not in hurry, we just going home.
.....
Then came a stop light, so ofcourse since this car cut in front of us, so this car was the 1st car at the stop light, my husband's car was the 2nd car, after that car (the car cut in front of us).
.....
So when the lights turn green, ofcourse the 1st car (the car cut in front of us) go first, and then us, by order.
There was a driver out of no where like a drunk person on the other side (decided to run the red light), it was suppose to be us green light that go, but this car run the red light and slammed right into the car that cut in front of us.!, since the car that cut in front of us were the first to go since it 1st in line once the light turn green.
Ofcourse the ambulance and police come, look like a drunk young college student. Both cars were wreck.
.....
BUT
here the thing, that car that decided to cut in front of my husband car, was why it got hit by the drunk driver, because it cut in front of us and was 1st in line when the lights turn green to go. It would have been us had that car didn't cut in front of us.!

SOMETHING in his chart SAVE him.
It clearly in the Transit, it Transit Mars that caused it. Transit Mars in Virgo transit his 3rd house of short travel/cars/on the road, Transit Mars Square his Natal Moon (and he the Moon in the chart) and Transit Mars and Square his Natal Uranus (sudden accident).

The Out of Sect Greatest Malefic Mars is hella evil, lol. But something in his chart save him, or else that car won't rush and cut in front of us, and got hit by a drunk driver instead. I was told Jupiter save him. But then maybe because Transit Mercury Domicile in Virgo was also with Transit Virgo Mars in that 3rd house, so Transit Domicile Mercury cushion soften it help a bit.
But clearly something in his chart save him. I was told Transit Jupiter in Taurus save him, as Transit Taurus Jupiter aspecting his Natal Scorpio Mars and Natal Scorpio Saturn.

What do you see? Do you see the same as I see? What I see is: Transit Mars in Virgo transit his 3rd house of short travel/cars/on the road, Transit Mars Square his Natal Moon (and he the Moon in the chart) and Transit Mars and Square his Natal Uranus (sudden accident). I just not know what planet save him, but something did.

 

[geminimercury]

@DC80

Thank you DC80 for help explain to me about the death of native child in my other thread where I asked about if Mars or Saturn trigger it.

Can you help me look at the Transit above (I explain what happened in the post right above), this one had to be Mars, I don't see how Saturn had any involvement in this.
Sorry I'm still not convince Mars is a benefic in this chart, I still feel Saturn and Jupiter are the ones that protect the native.

Thank you so much for your help. Learning from you here. You read my posts around here you understand me, so called "modern" astrology is moot to me. So I only want to learn it from those who strictly Hellenistic TRADITIONAL astrology.

 

[DC80]

The Greeks would never use transits to natal.

The Lot of Afflictions & Illnesses is taken from Mars to Saturn in a diurnal chart and Saturn to Mars in a nocturnal chart.

Mars at Scorpio 24° is the same as 234° and Saturn at Scorpio 16° is the same as 226°. 234 + 226 = 460 - 360 = 100° added to the Asc at Cancer 12° which is 102° so 100 + 102 = 202° and that puts it at Libra 22°.



Your natal chart profected to August 1, 2023 at 5:38 pm brings the Asc to Libra 23° with Jupiter in opposition at Aries 21° to both the Asc and the Lot of Afflictions & Illnesses at Libra 21°.

 

[geminimercury]

@DC80

Thank you for your help, welp, I learn something new from you today.

But can you look at this again, it say native Lot of Affliction and Illness is 20 degrees Cancer. Can you look at this screenshot? It show the calculations here.

How to profected to that day use Lot of Affliction 20 degrees Cancer.

An astrologer also confirmed the Lot of Afflictions too, the astrologer said this, quote below:
[[[ To calculate it, we (initially) ignore the zodiac signs ... and work with the 360 degree circle ... which has 0Aries00 as the starting point.

Thus, your husband´s Ascendent is at 102 degrees : Mars is at 234 degrees : Saturn is at 226 degrees.

102 + 234 - 226 = 110 degrees ... which is the degree of his Lot of "Enemies", Sickness, Suffering and Struggle.

We then go back to the zodiac sign circle, and see that 110 degrees = 20Cancer00 ... which is the degree of his lot of "Enemies", Sickness, Suffering and Afflictions.

And we notice immediately that 20Cancer00 forms a Grand Water Trine with his Mars/Saturn and Mercury/Sun mid-points. ... Thus, these four planets are working (harmoniously) together to create enemies, sickness, suffering or/and struggle ... ]]]

So what it means? Grand Water Trine with Mars/Saturn and Mercury/Sun midpoints, all working together to create hardship for the native?

 

[DC80]

@DC80

Thank you for your help, welp, I learn something new from you today.

But can you look at this again, it say native Lot of Affliction and Illness is 20 degrees Cancer. Can you look at this screenshot? It show the calculations here.

How to profected to that day use Lot of Affliction 20 degrees Cancer.

An astrologer also confirmed the Lot of Afflictions too, the astrologer said this, quote below:
[[[ To calculate it, we (initially) ignore the zodiac signs ... and work with the 360 degree circle ... which has 0Aries00 as the starting point.

Thus, your husband´s Ascendent is at 102 degrees : Mars is at 234 degrees : Saturn is at 226 degrees.

102 + 234 - 226 = 110 degrees ... which is the degree of his Lot of "Enemies", Sickness, Suffering and Struggle.

We then go back to the zodiac sign circle, and see that 110 degrees = 20Cancer00 ... which is the degree of his lot of "Enemies", Sickness, Suffering and Afflictions.

And we notice immediately that 20Cancer00 forms a Grand Water Trine with his Mars/Saturn and Mercury/Sun mid-points. ... Thus, these four planets are working (harmoniously) together to create enemies, sickness, suffering or/and struggle ... ]]]

So what it means? Grand Water Trine with Mars/Saturn and Mercury/Sun midpoints, all working together to create hardship for the native?

I am not familiar with the "Lot of "Enemies", Sickness, Suffering and Struggle."
That wasn't a Lot used by Greeks or Latins.

I am also unfamiliar with the method of calculation. That was not a technique the Greeks or Latins used. All Lots were projected from the Asc or a star and in rare cases from a Porphyry House cusp or another Lot.

None of the Lots used by the Greeks or Latins were projected from 0° of anything unless the Asc or another star happened to fall at 0°.

As I explained about the Lot of Honors, Paulus, Valens, Hesphastio and others would switch to Porphyry House, find the degree of the 9th House Cusp, count the distance to Sun and then project that from the Asc.

I said the Lot of Afflictions & Illnesses was at Libra 22° then mistakenly typed Libra 21° later but as I also said Jupiter is in his own decan/face and will function like Jupiter in Sagittarius (and not Pisces because the chart is diurnal) and even though he is out of sect being in the night sky, he can still protect/mitigate.

To a casual observer it might be astonishing that at the precise moment of the accident Jupiter was directly opposite the profected Libra Asc and Lot of Afflictions at Libra 22° but that is the essence of traditional astrology and why it's so powerful.

Would I have predicted that? I doubt it. Jupiter doesn't have to be in aspect by exact degree to protect/mitigate. It's enough for Jupiter to cast his rays into any place in the chart and being in the 7th place are the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th, and 11th places in the chart so whatever occurs there is usually favorable or beneficial or things aren't so bad.

That's why Jupiter's best place is the 4th/10th because he sextles/trines the 2nd/6th and 8th/12th and squares the 1st/7th and opposes the 4th/10th.

Grand Trines and Grand Water Trines are a modern astrology thing. In traditional, something is trine or not and there's nothing grand about it.

Jupiter rules Pisces and sextiles Mercury/Sun but Aquarius is a fixed/solid sign so there's no effect. They are more influenced by Mars as one of the water trigon rulers. The retrograde Saturn in the night sky in the wrong house is out of control malefic and being trine the out of sect Mercury and Sun in a feminine sign makes them mildly malefic.

So that Saturn/Mars/Mercury/Sun and the Asc are acting harmoniously is silly because they're not.

I would say having Saturn in Libra would be better but then being retrograde and out of sect and sitting with the Lot of Afflictions he'd actually cause accidents and illnesses (and then laugh about it).

I don't know if I told you already, but Moon is disqualified in the 12th place so Sun is the controller/predominator. Valens would say Sun is in the term of Venus and Venus is above the horizon which prevents Sun from being disqualified otherwise we'd have to use the Asc but Venus is in aversion to Sun so this chart has a controller but no chart ruler.

Also the Lot of the Father should be in Aquarius which is a masculine sign and it's in square to both Mars and Saturn and that usually shows the father dies before the mother.

 

[geminimercury]

The Greeks would never use transits to natal.

The Lot of Afflictions & Illnesses is taken from Mars to Saturn in a diurnal chart

@DC80 ok, can you check again Sir, BOTH softwares give me Cancer, NOT Libra. I follow your formula, Lot = Ascendant + Mars - Saturn

Lot of Afflictions & Illnesses

The Lot of Afflictions and Illnesss is Cancer NOT Libra.

I follow your formula, Lot = Ascendant + Mars - Saturn

Can you see the screenshot below? It give you step by step of the calculation, it say Cancer, not Libra.

Clearly this say Cancer here.

@

 

[geminimercury]

Sir @DC80

Look my friend, even if you use your Valens bound/terms which you posted to me yourself in the previous pages.
A Pisces Sun that is 19 degrees and 52 min is NOT in Venus term, it is in Moon term if you want to use your Valens chart.
Venus term is only up to 18 degree, anything 19 degree to 22 degrees is MOON term, this is your chart right?

Please look again, Pisces Sun that is 19 degrees and 52 min is in Moon term.

Can you look again? Clearly it in Moon term. Even in PlanetDance under Valens term it put the Sun in Moon term. NOT Venus.

btw, the reason why I use Egyptian terms because Valens Anthologies his EXAMPLES charts use Egyptian terms.
But I digress, we all have our own bound/terms to use, I just use what Valens Anthologies use in the EXAMPLES chart in his own books and that is Egyptian terms.
And in Egyptian term native's Sun is in Mars term. Both Sun and Mercury is in Mars terms.

And actually the software has the answer, it gives to Jupiter (as the Oikodespotes ultimate ruler of the chart), because Jupiter is the "Domicile" Ruler of Pisces Sun. And Jupiter aspect both Sun and Ascendant.
Mars is the Kurious the ship captain, as he the Trigon Lord in his own sign and Domicile ruler of the Aries MC the highest point of the chart.
Sun is the Predominator.
Jupiter is the Oikodespotes.

Here I screenshot for you.

And the Lot of Father is in Pisces, PlanetDance say so, as so two other software, even the calculation like the one above also say Pisces as the Lot of Father.

I use this table below (Egyptian):

 

[DC80]

btw, the reason why I use Egyptian terms because Valens Anthologies his EXAMPLES charts use Egyptian terms.

Valens used two sets of terms. He used his version of Egyptian terms for natal charts and the one that I have you for predictive work.

 

[geminimercury]

So what it is Sir @DC80 according to your own chart Valens terms.

A Pisces Sun that is 19 degrees and 52 min is NOT in Venus term, it is in Moon term if you want to use your Valens chart.
Venus term is only up to 18 degree, anything 19 degree to 22 degrees is MOON term, this is your chart right?

Please look again, Pisces Sun that is 19 degrees and 52 min is in Moon term.

Can you answer that? What term it is according to your Valens chart, because it NOT in Venus term, it in MOON term. And the Gemini Moon does aspect the Pisces Sun. BUT Valens will wake up from his grave before he let a Moon in 12th house which DISCONNECT from the Ascendant to rule anything.

btw, if you use Egyptian term, both Sun and Mercury are in Mars Term/bound and also in Mars face/decan. I would still say Mars has the upper hand in his specific chart.
And the Ascendant is more important than the Sun, you should know in Hellenistic the "Hour Marker" the Asc is more personal than the Sun sign, and BOTH Moon and Venus DISCONNECT from the Ascendant.

I believe if Valens were still alive and read this chart, no way he give anything to Moon and Venus where it absolutely Disconnect from the Ascendant.

I bet Valens will give it to Jupiter or Mars in this chart, deservingly so as it BOTH aspect the Ascendant, and it hte only 2 planets that has dignities in this chart.

 

[geminimercury]

And it funny too how it say Jupiter Conjunction Neptune, you are spiritual and optimistic, my butt, the SIGN matter here. This is Capricorn Jupiter Conjunction Capricorn Neptune Rule by SATURN a Scorpio Saturn with a Scorpio Mars.

There NOTHING spiritual and optimistic about the native, Atheist, pessimistic as hell, always think the negative and bad side of things, calculating as hell too. Violent as hell too.

This is where modern astrology miss, the freaking SIGN MATTER. Jupiter Conjunction Neptune is moot until you know what is the sign of Jupiter and Neptune fall under, and their RULER too. Like you asking both a Capricorn Jupiter and a Capricorn Neptune and a Scorpio Saturn (which is their Ruler) combine to be optimistic, funny Lol.

The SIGN matter people.

 

[leomoon]

to DC80: Are there exceptions?

Would you count a sextile with this statement as an intervening benefic from Jupiter? Both Merc & Mars cj. in Capricorn 6th hs. with Merc in terms of Jupiter and Mars terms of Venus sextile Jupiter in 5th in water (Scorpio) in terms of Jupiter.
Oftentimes my big mouth has gotten me in trouble in life with my loved ones and people I truly care about. Thinking they want to hear the truth but they don't. It's been a constant struggle for me and brought me a lot of suffering as a result.

REF: Mercury/Mars are only bad when conjunct/square/opposing. And it's almost always real bad without the intervention of Benefics.