I have no other choice

[Opal]

I think I remember you too, I think we chatted. But I’m not entirely sure, if it was here or astro. See you around!

 

[Blister]

You asked about some ways to learn about Astrology in an understandable way----I have some simple suggestions.

First, I noticed that you seem to have a very good understanding of a lot of your aspects, and transits, and even your locational lines, which is pretty nuanced. So I think you have that 'thing' ----that Astrological 'thing' that some Astrologers seem to have. I think that there is a deep place within, that denotes certain 'abilities.'

Like Musical abilities for example. Some children have Musical abilities---they can just pick it up, and get it. Others can try and try and try to learn how to play an instrument and it just doesn't happen.

So all that, to say that Astrology is similar to Musical ability or Artistic ability, or Mathematical ability. IMO. There is a 'thing' deep inside that enables someone to just 'get it.' And then of course it takes some studying.

Second, I have a suggestion for your 3rd house Saturn way of learning. One of the ways I learned and the way I taught students, was to tell them pick 2 or 3 people that you know really well. A parent or sibling, a longtime childhood friend, an ex girlfriend, etc.

And print up all of the charts. And then begin to study each one, by comparing and contrasting. You can get a very simple book to start with, even as simple as "Astrology for Dummies' because it is very organised. And can be used as a template. But take each chart and look at the Sun in each one, compare and contrast. Then the Moon, etc. And you can google things, for each chart, noting what rings true in your opinion.

Then when you find the parts of each chart that really interest you, you can look for great books on that subject. For example if Chiron seems important in each chart, then maybe look at used books or kindle versions by Richard Nolle, or Melanie Reinhart. Liz Greene, Barbara Hand Clow.

And do a deep dive on Chiron in each of the 3 charts and your own. Doing so, with charts of people that you know very well, really helps you to understand how certain placements and aspects play out in a chart.

I would focus specifically upon chart pattern in each chart---like Bucket or Bundle or See-Saw or Bowl, etc. Start by looking at the chart patterns or 'type' of each chart and compare and contrast. Your friend with the See-Saw pattern built upon a few oppositions is very different from the tight Bundle pattern chart. See-Saw native goes back and forth between two extremes, feeling pulled in opposite directions. While tight Bundle is unyielding and kind of stuck but very intensely focused on one area of their life to exclusion of others, but often a true expert in their chosen field.

So spend a long period of time going through each chart and as you do, you will be building upon your Astrological knowledge. Just like you do with Music production---stacking each skill.

That is how I put my interest in astrology to task. At first, in high school when I learned about how ascendants determined a person's chart, I used to ask what time people were born, telling them a total bs story about how I could tell where they would end up in life based on their birth time. Of course I already knew their birthdays, lol. It's not really bs though. My mom had all kinds of books from the 50's 60's doom and gloom trad writers and Linda Goodman and Joseph Goodavage books were my modern intro into learning astrology. I remember the doom and gloom stuff, still though. My mom once told me that I was the worst Virgo she ever knew, and I have the Node conjunct Pluto in 2nd and Jup Saturn conjunct in 6th which was conjunct her Mercury.

When a new student buys their first hard copy ephemeris, highlighting a day of joy or terror or fear or uncertainty - a day or even a week that stood out - and annotating it in a notebook is a good learn by experience way. I think it takes a lot less time than coordinating all that data on a computer and then searching for a translatiion.

I should have said Hello first, but I'm rude like that. Nonetheless, I look forward to your astrology posts and observations.

 

[FVRKAN]

Oh cool! You've been to Athens? Always wanted to see that place. I actually know geography a little better than most Americans because I took a European History class in high school... along with taking an ancient Latin class as my foreign language credit, where they taught us the Greek alphabet alongside it for some reason. Incidentally, as a result of that, I have a tendency to think of the modern Republic of Türkiye as basically the successor state to the Ottoman Empire. I am vaguely aware the Ottoman Empire went through a period of decline during which it was called the "sick man of Europe," and eventually this guy named Ataturk came along after World War I who wanted to create a new Republic that would be different from the Ottoman Empire. From there, I know at one point Türkiye was on track to become a fairly secular, modern, and industrialized country with a stable government, but that it seems to have deviated from that path with the current leadership.

It's really interesting that you know so much about it. You can directly think as its successor. We also think like that. "Sick man of Europe" thing makes me emotional. I'm well aware of the history of my ancestors, way back then even before their coming to Anatolia from Cental Asia. I'm telling these as someone who looks anthropologically Turkic btw. Sometimes also I was making analysis about my psychological structure by thinking about my ancestors' nomadic lifestyle, even later on my friends were joking about my changing locations a lot like: "I guess Turks forgot to let you know about they adapted the settled life." but then thanks to astrology, I'm understanding the things better about myself. But in the future, if I learn enough the depth of astrology, I may also research the possibility of conveying planetary aspects to the next genes, as we all have something from our parents and ancestors. You know there's a saying opposing the idea of race like "there is no race, there is geography." but maybe it's deeper than that, "it's stars!" and there might be more connections between race, location, worldly power loop and astrology. Because I also used to think a lot about the super powers of the world history and I was questioning why the power is continously changing continents. For example, today Baghdad is a horrible place to live at and people would't even count its name in the places where they would love to live, but 1000 years ago it was pretty equal to today's New York at those times. Or Semerkand, today it's in Uzbekistan and noone gives a single f*ck about it but it was holding the biggest libraries of the world once upon a time and having symposiums w scientists from all over the worlds. Those places were top notch prestigious, now they're like "mehh" - I've always wondered the invisible powers behind these changes throughout the history. You know what? I even put my birth data as 1533 instead of 1993, at same place, same birth day and time and I checked my birth chart how I would be in those years. In 1533, Ottoman Empire was pretty much was the wealthiest country and the number one power of the world, so it wasn't suprising to see in my birth chart I was becoming a wealthy man as well, but my artistic abilities were totally gone, and saturn was in 9th house so as it seems I was going to have probably a somewhat jihadist mindset within me who is not much tolerant to others opinions', especially with descendants of crusaders or supporters of holy league lol and my most painful experiences were going to come from losing my loved ones in battlefields. It was crazy mind-opening to check my medieval chart.

And yes I was in Athens, it was an interesting experience for me. I love Roman Empire a lot and even my nickname is inspired by Roman alphabet (the letter V was also used for U as well as today's V), although technically we Turks ended their existence. Seeing ancient Greek, Roman and Turkish vibe at the same time was really interesting experience. I also am aware how valuable Greeks are to history. But what took my attention in details is, the abundance of usage the name of "Karaman" in Greece and let me tell you something interesting about it. After the dissolution of Seljuk Empire, there was different beyliks (feudal structures) in Anatolia from different Turkish houses. House of Ottoman (Osmanoğulları) was one of them and there was also house of Karaman (Karamanoğulları) and many other beyliks. But Ottoman and Karaman were the strongest. Even after conquest of Constantinople, Ottomans couldn't conquer Karamans yet. But then it eventually happened and they settled the half of these Turks from Karamanoğlu Beyliği (Karamanids) to Balkans. And Atatürk is coming from the that family line who was exiled there, and I'm coming from the family line who stayed here. I'm personally coming from Karamans as well. But Ottomans, Karamans, Dulkadirs etc, yeah we're all Turks, just different houses. And there's a Turkish saying "the sheep of Karaman, its game appears later on" (Karaman'ın koyunu, sonra çıkar oyunu) and its because they were using great amount of sheeps and they were putting torches on each of them and they were sending them to the enemies at nights and the enemies were fooled as they were thinking a huge army is marching on them. And so, Atatürk's being from the house of Karaman, and the fact that he ended Ottoman Empire and founded Turkish Republic gains a whole new meaning. Lol. But not much people know about this, it requires a lot of historic knowledge. And yeah the current leadership sucks. Demography of Turkey got damaged, maybe even irreversibly. Economy failed. Freedom of speech failed. Not much people have hope about the future of it but the time will show.

 

[FVRKAN]

There are some great authors you may start to read (I find Liz Greene and Melanie Reinhart particularly rewarding to read).

However, if you would like free resources, there are some great websites and blogs (but take into account that most of them just have the resources, but don't have a structured 'learning path'), such as https://www.astrology.com/ (you can press the menu in the top left corner to view their whole 'learn' resources), https://geocult.org/ has a massive amount of articles and information about every kind of placement and interactions (there's a 'CATEGORIES' pane in the left hand side: There, the button 'Natal chart' contains most of the resources); Although it's a particularly unorthodox method, you can check those articles and read them up casually, for learning purposes (you will find there's no 'established way' to learn Astrology, as it's quite complex and deep and, perhaps the main reason why there's no consensus on what someone should learn, is because not anyone is interested in everything: The vast majority will remain unimportant for the vast majority).


One of the things that actually pushed me through, is, as soon as I learn about something (e.g. 'the Sun through the houses'), look up some famous people's charts and try to identify/apply whatever I've just learnt into their chart (e.g. 'X has his Sun in the # house, that may have contributed to why he's known for Y'); Extra points if you interwind it with previous knowledge.


I started in the 80s, however, pretty much intermittently since I oftentimes got burnt out from the charting (particularly Secondary/Tertiary progressions and rectifications). I started fully in the mid-90s, with the arrival of modern software, I developed a simple program that made the chart calculations for you (later on, better programs appeared, and I started using them).

Wow. Thank you for the info. I tested astrology.com after your comment and weird enough, although around 60% of the interpretations is okay, some of them were brutally colliding with who I am. So I didn't find it correct enough and it came to me it lacks depth. Moreover, I also saw their column for mainstream astrology and I always hated these kinda approaches like "Hey Libras, this week you'll encounter..." - I think it's a total bullsh*t. And this is the reason why the majority thinks astrology is something fake, surely this is also the thing what makes astrology popular though but you got my point. I couldn't test Geocult in depth but thanks for recommending me these, I'll test Geocult in a proper time. By no means I'm despising your recommendations, I'm just telling what I encountered with the first one. And your saying you started fully in mid 90s after intermittently dealing with it in 80s makes me feel nothing but to have huge respect for you. And to this day, you're still studying. I knew a human lifetime wouldn't be enough to solve all mysteries hahah and maybe that's why we're supposed to be not alone. Thanks for the tips.

 

[FVRKAN]

You asked about some ways to learn about Astrology in an understandable way----I have some simple suggestions.

First, I noticed that you seem to have a very good understanding of a lot of your aspects, and transits, and even your locational lines, which is pretty nuanced. So I think you have that 'thing' ----that Astrological 'thing' that some Astrologers seem to have. I think that there is a deep place within, that denotes certain 'abilities.'

Like Musical abilities for example. Some children have Musical abilities---they can just pick it up, and get it. Others can try and try and try to learn how to play an instrument and it just doesn't happen.

So all that, to say that Astrology is similar to Musical ability or Artistic ability, or Mathematical ability. IMO. There is a 'thing' deep inside that enables someone to just 'get it.' And then of course it takes some studying.

Second, I have a suggestion for your 3rd house Saturn way of learning. One of the ways I learned and the way I taught students, was to tell them pick 2 or 3 people that you know really well. A parent or sibling, a longtime childhood friend, an ex girlfriend, etc.

And print up all of the charts. And then begin to study each one, by comparing and contrasting. You can get a very simple book to start with, even as simple as "Astrology for Dummies' because it is very organised. And can be used as a template. But take each chart and look at the Sun in each one, compare and contrast. Then the Moon, etc. And you can google things, for each chart, noting what rings true in your opinion.

Then when you find the parts of each chart that really interest you, you can look for great books on that subject. For example if Chiron seems important in each chart, then maybe look at used books or kindle versions by Richard Nolle, or Melanie Reinhart. Liz Greene, Barbara Hand Clow.

And do a deep dive on Chiron in each of the 3 charts and your own. Doing so, with charts of people that you know very well, really helps you to understand how certain placements and aspects play out in a chart.

I would focus specifically upon chart pattern in each chart---like Bucket or Bundle or See-Saw or Bowl, etc. Start by looking at the chart patterns or 'type' of each chart and compare and contrast. Your friend with the See-Saw pattern built upon a few oppositions is very different from the tight Bundle pattern chart. See-Saw native goes back and forth between two extremes, feeling pulled in opposite directions. While tight Bundle is unyielding and kind of stuck but very intensely focused on one area of their life to exclusion of others, but often a true expert in their chosen field.

So spend a long period of time going through each chart and as you do, you will be building upon your Astrological knowledge. Just like you do with Music production---stacking each skill.

To be able to perceive that I have that 'thing', you should have that 'thing' too. I always said by myself like "something 30 cannot understand something 100" - you may think these numbers of a level of something. Same logic with Nietzsche's "The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly." quote. So I'm also impressed your perception about me. As for your advice, I was already researching many people's charts spontaneously and that's how some knowledge started to settle in my mind, but I never thought about inspecting the planets one by one. And then diving deep into that specific planet or aspects. I loved your idea. Thanks for that. And by this way, you're basically telling me like "listen to many songs, you'll get how to play." instead of learning music theory, academic knowledge, notes etc. - I appreciate it. I probably would. In the scene, where you gave an example about some kids' being talented in music, I laughed because when I was a teenager like 15 years old, my father had sent me to a guitar course but I finished that within a month and the tutor had told my father "this kid is learning so fast, he's doing the things in a day for other kids to take some weeks" and then after a month I was like, I can handle the rest by myself and I did so. Although I don't play much anymore, I'm still a pro guitarist when I play. Actually this thing still continues and recently I discovered one of my aspects and it was saying like "you are able to benefit from your talents almost without spending any effort" and I guess if I wouldn't have that aspect, I wouldn't be able to survive with this laziness hahah. If I only could fix that feature of mine...

I've never heard something called chart pattern. So as I understood, mine is a bundle chart. Is it? Or if there's more categorizations, I guess it's something close to bundle at least.

I really loved your methods and thanks for showing me the rest of the way. And probably those books that focus on specific planets would give me the academic knowledge that I desire to have to categorize my scattered knowledge that I learned from the charts. There my perfectionism comes in I guess. That's why although artistically I don't need, I wanted to learn all the technical knowledge and started to study audio engineering. To become/to feel complete on that field.

And how about sharing your birth data with me too so that I can also inspect on a composite chart what caused me to feel warm feelings while I was reading your comment? There was something I felt there. Was it Venus/Neptune stuff or Scorpio intensity? I'm curious.

 

[InfLux]

I tested astrology.com after your comment and weird enough, although around 60% of the interpretations is okay, some of them were brutally colliding with who I am. So I didn't find it correct enough and it came to me it lacks depth. Moreover, I also saw their column for mainstream astrology and I always hated these kinda approaches like "Hey Libras, this week you'll encounter..." - I think it's a total bullsh*t. And this is the reason why the majority thinks astrology is something fake, surely this is also the thing what makes astrology popular though but you got my point.

Half of it is cheap sensationalism ('weekly horoscopes' for each sign; I'm in accord with you in that front: It's not solemn), yes, but the resources to learn seem to give off an interpretative base (we must remember that the chart should always be interpreted as a whole, and one aspect can vary greatly depending on the context it's given... 'One must not let a tree to cover the rest of the forest' - Astrologer Segundo Ruiz.).
The other site, GeoCult, tends to be much more technical and doesn't get along with just the popular topics. Glad you have the intention of checking it out, and I wish that one will suit you better.

your saying you started fully in mid 90s after intermittently dealing with it in 80s makes me feel nothing but to have huge respect for you. And to this day, you're still studying.

Greatly appreciated! Respect for you as well for acknowledging it.

Thanks for the tips.

Welcome anytime.

 

[Humanitarian]

Hi FVRKAN! I think you make EDM, is that right? If yes, which subgenre is it?

 

[katydid]

[snipped for focus...]

And how about sharing your birth data with me too so that I can also inspect on a composite chart what caused me to feel warm feelings while I was reading your comment? There was something I felt there. Was it Venus/Neptune stuff or Scorpio intensity? I'm curious.

I don't post my chart here, but I will answer your question----and you were very accurate in your intuitive prediction, about possible Venus/Neptune connection and/or Scorpio stuff.

One very strong connection= Your Asc is 22 Scorpio, mine is 22 Taurus. That is a powerful connection, to have Ascendant conjunct Descendant. Plus, My Mercury @ 17 Scorpio tightly conjuncts your Mercury.

My Venus is @ 2Sag which is conjunct your North Node/ [ I think that is similar to your guess about Venus/Neptune connection]

Your Libra stuff conjuncts my Libra stuff. I have Saturn @19 Libra, and Neptune@ 23 Libra.

So my Neptune is conjunct your Jupiter. My Saturn is conjunct your Sun. Strangely, my Father had his Sun in Libra conjunct my Saturn I was his Saturn Return baby. You share his birthday.


In terms of chart pattern, I don't see yours as fully fitting the Bundle definition. All of the planets should be within a 120 degrees. Yours is closer to 150 degree span.


I think the closest pattern to your chart might be the Bowl, although there is not a rim with an opposition. Your planets are within 150 degrees, but if we add Chiron then it becomes closer to the definition of a Bowl.



The Bowl Shape
A pattern in which all the planets are arrayed across one half of the horoscope, usually bracketed by opposing signs or houses.
The term for this aspect pattern was coined by Marc Edmund Jones.

 

[FVRKAN]

Hi FVRKAN! I think you make EDM, is that right? If yes, which subgenre is it?

Currently melodic house. I previously produced almost every subgenre of EDM. But I opened a new artist alias called FVRKAN and wanted to narrow the genre field to give more certain image and currently only 2 tracks are live on my Spotify. After my birthday, I'm thinking to make releases pretty much every week. I may include tech house as well because I also have fire tracks that lay inside my computer.

A tech house example, here's a private link for you.

 

[FVRKAN]

I don't post my chart here, but I will answer your question----and you were very accurate in your intuitive prediction, about possible Venus/Neptune connection and/or Scorpio stuff.

One very strong connection= Your Asc is 22 Scorpio, mine is 22 Taurus. That is a powerful connection, to have Ascendant conjunct Descendant. Plus, My Mercury @ 17 Scorpio tightly conjuncts your Mercury.

My Venus is @ 2Sag which is conjunct your North Node/ [ I think that is similar to your guess about Venus/Neptune connection]

Your Libra stuff conjuncts my Libra stuff. I have Saturn @19 Libra, and Neptune@ 23 Libra.

So my Neptune is conjunct your Jupiter. My Saturn is conjunct your Sun. Strangely, my Father had his Sun in Libra conjunct my Sun. I was his Saturn Return baby. You share his birthday.

I'm speechless Katy. Thanks for answering my question.

 

[Humanitarian]

Currently melodic house. I previously produced almost every subgenre of EDM. But I opened a new artist alias called FVRKAN and wanted to narrow the genre field to give more certain image and currently only 2 tracks are live on my Spotify. After my birthday, I'm thinking to make releases pretty much every week. I may include tech house as well because I also have fire tracks that lay inside my computer.

A tech house example, here's a private link for you.

I'm making music as VRANØIS, mainly riddim/brostep/dubstep! I like some prog house (Alan Walker, Tobu, Elektronomia styled) too, but I'm more a basshead in terms of producing music.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I've never heard something called chart pattern. So as I understood, mine is a bundle chart. Is it? Or if there's more categorizations, I guess it's something close to bundle at least.

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html

ASPECT PATTERNS​

When three or more planets are connected to each other by aspect
they form a pattern with a meaning of its own.
e.g.
'T' SQUARE:

Two planets in opposition are both in square to a third planet.
This brings tension and sharp, pressing problems
the result of which may be great energy
& consequently a better than average chance of success
throughout life. When interpreting a T' Square
all the factors involved - planets, signs and houses
- must be taken separately & then built up into a picture
of the choices, difficulties & solutions which each planet suggests.


.

 

[FVRKAN]

I'm making music as VRANØIS, mainly riddim/brostep/dubstep! I like some prog house (Alan Walker, Tobu, Elektronomia styled) too, but I'm more a basshead in terms of producing music.

I understand. I had made dubstep productions too, but that was for proving myself to myself. I am not a fan of that genre, especially with chronic tinnitus, hell no but I also sometimes I encounter something I like in that genre and listen to it time to time or sometimes me myself feel like a basshead and create something with that vibe, actually the little example I show you is included in this. Tech house is technically bass focused too. (In that track, I even had layered two sub-basses, then had grouped and doubled the mid-basses as one stereo one mono and applied parallel compression) Sometimes I make techno (either industrial or melodic). I’m really happy to see another producer here if that’s what you do as a job. I wish it was totally focused on same field though but. What DAW do you use? And do you have any tracks that I can listen to?

 

[JUPITERASC]

But lately I have made interesting discoveries, I spent all my money like over 20k dollars this summer for only to test different locations and their affects and the things I discovered is literally mindblowing. But the thing is, I wanna ask more about the things I don't know, I wanna share the spiritual discoveries I made,

Parans are a common tool used in locational astrology
to determine the planetary influences in various locations
that can be seen on a person's astromap,
and are one of the three main types of astrology map lines used

Parans in Locational Astrology ​

 

[Humanitarian]

I understand. I had made dubstep productions too, but that was for proving myself to myself. I am not a fan of that genre, especially with chronic tinnitus, hell no but I also sometimes I encounter something I like in that genre and listen to it time to time or sometimes me myself feel like a basshead and create something with that vibe, actually the little example I show you is included in this. Tech house is technically bass focused too. (In that track, I even had layered two sub-basses, then had grouped and doubled the mid-basses as one stereo one mono and applied parallel compression) Sometimes I make techno (either industrial or melodic). I’m really happy to see another producer here if that’s what you do as a job. I wish it was totally focused on same field though but. What DAW do you use? And do you have any tracks that I can listen to?

There's Jim Yosef, which is a progressive house artist with chronic tinnitus (he said it in his bio), so maybe it's ok for you?

 

[FVRKAN]

There's Jim Yosef, which is a progressive house artist with chronic tinnitus (he said it in his bio), so maybe it's ok for you?

Progressive is ok. I was talking about riddim/brostep/dubstep that you claimed you make. Why don't you answer my questions btw? Or not giving feedback to what I sent you? Weird.

 

[Humanitarian]

Progressive is ok. I was talking about riddim/brostep/dubstep that you claimed you make. Why don't you answer my questions btw? Or not giving feedback to what I sent you? Weird.

Oh. I forgot. That tech house song is tho

 

[Humanitarian]

I just suggested a genre for you to produce if you have tinnitus, so sorry for not answering your questions.

 

[FVRKAN]

I just suggested a genre for you to produce if you have tinnitus, so sorry for not answering your questions.

Music is not something like that for me. If I was fan of dubstep I wouldn't care about tinnitus. I'm mostly fan of melodic house and melodic techno.
That's why I produce more in those genres. And you still didn't answer the questions. Didn't you say you have an alias and you produce music? I couldn't find when I searched that name and I asked example of one of your songs and about which daw you use... Still weird. But anyway, let's say you don't wanna share. All good.

 

[Humanitarian]

Music is not something like that for me. If I was fan of dubstep I wouldn't care about tinnitus. I'm mostly fan of melodic house and melodic techno.
That's why I produce more in those genres. And you still didn't answer the questions. Didn't you say you have an alias and you produce music? I couldn't find when I searched that name and I asked example of one of your songs and about which daw you use... Still weird. But anyway, let's say you don't wanna share. All good.

I have 3 old alias, actually