Is Neptune a Malefic?

[The_Sundance_Kid]

It is strange, that all the positive qualities of Neptune given here are what I associate with a beneficial Pluto- that ultimate healing of trauma through the realisation and acceptance of truth. I think that ego has its rightful place in the grander scheme of things- we need it in some form. That is how Neptune fools us by dissolving it, but the Zodiac responds by shifting us to Aries if we get a bit too fluid!

Maybe if the world is overly materialistic, Neptune might be beneficial but perceived as negative. However I would bypass Neptune altogether and look at Pluto for the shock therapy to get us out of any problems. As materialism is more a Taurean thing than a Virgoan thing, it would seem Pluto is the better antidote.

I think I'm partial too as I have Pluto in the 12th, so maybe I confuse Pluto and Neptune. I also have Neptune in the 2nd. And it is part of my faith that mankind needs no higher state of consciousness- that man can understand the divine through his everyday life and not isolate it into a box to be opened upon prayer or trance. To be in constant meditation whilst living actively and normally is my ideal.

There's a buddhist saying that when one first starts meditating a tree is a tree and a mountain is a mountain. And then the tree is no longer a tree and a mountain is no longer a mountain. Finally when one is finished, a tree becomes a tree again and a mountain becomes a mountain again. I guess I just think Pluto and Jupiter, Scorpio-Sagittarius-Capricorn as a pathway rule that experience.

Neptune leaves you abandoned on the mountain.

 

[estrella]

Very interesting Sundance- I also have Pluto in the 12th and Neptune in the 2nd. Maybe I'm more partial to Neptune because it only makes beneficial aspects in my chart, and I have benefitted from her mysterious ways.

Pluto, however, makes some good aspects, but also oppositions to my Moon and Venus in the second house-and I've felt the effects of that. As I get older, I'm starting to see those hard aspects as opportunities for growth through understanding and hard work.

 

[The_Sundance_Kid]

Interesting indeed- my Neptune is also only positively aspected, and so is my Pluto, so I'm not quite sure why I feel this way about the former planet.

I only see Neptune is an aesthetic sense, and not in a spiritual one. Now while most people consider the aesthetic to be on a continuum with the divine, making Neptune a common ruler of both, I put them in different categories. So I absolutely adore tv, film, theatre, but whenever I think it verges on the spiritual I see it as Plutonian instead. So I can love certain films, like Star Wars (geeky I know) or The Departed (I started a thread on Scorcese actually called 'if he can do it'), in a Neptunian sense, but when it comes to films that touch me on a more intimate level, they tend to be of a more Plutonian nature, eg The Shawshank Redemption, although they need not be dark and gloomy, eg Ferris Beuler's Day Off. The latter touches me on a Neptunian and Plutonian level (the existentialist vibe for me being Plutonian).

 

[Inside Out Orange]

Neptune's still a degree away from it's opposition transits yet I'm noticing its effects. Silly little things like finding cups of tea still half-full where previously it was gone in minutes; or when I type posts atrocious spelling errors and/or poor sentence construction. Whole words missed out. I'm usually so precise ...

 

[Hybrid_soul]

Well I have Neptune in my 5th house so i guess it sounds like this:


Neptune in 5th-may indicate that your imaginative and spiritual potential manifests through intuitive creative self-expression, artistic talent, children or an association with one of the opposite sex. Strange, abnormal or peculiar events may be experienced in connection with your feelings, emotions, affections and sex matters. An idyllic, romantic love partner is much desired.

You have a flair for creating drama and glamour. The dating scene and other activities that fall into the "love affair" category are often approached with unrealistic expectations and when reality visits you can end up feeling disillusioned.

I try to use this potencial for my stories. so I guess with me I dont think it's malefic
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[Inside Out Orange]

Neptune's still a degree away from it's opposition transits yet I'm noticing its effects. Silly little things like finding cups of tea still half-full where previously it was gone in minutes; or when I type posts atrocious spelling errors and/or poor sentence construction. Whole words missed out. I'm usually so precise ...

However beyond the lack of attention, I'm finding my blue sky thinking to be pretty good at the moment. Ideas just rolling out of my pencil like you wouldn't believe ....

 

[cindystubbs]

Neptune is in my eleventh house of friends.
I have a tendency to look at friends through rose-colored glasses and am often disappointed when they turn out less than wonderful.

In an abusive childhood I had imagined myself as many things, a harem dancer, a Xena, a superhero,

I am always imagining fantastical things happening in my future.

Neptune is trine my moon and music moves me so powerfully that putting on CD has the power to change my mood completely.
My imagination sometimes has me lost in friendships, thinking there is a stronger friendship than there actually is.
My Neptune is well-aspected, but it still fogs things up.

 

[FedorFan]

I have never seen a chart where Neptune really manifests itself positively.

It always seems to confuse, alienate, isolate, and scandalise things. People turn to escapism, do not achieve their potential etc. Forget artistic inspiration. People who really seem talented in the arts all seem to have Jupiter, Venus or Pluto issues, and Pluto is the planet that sees the truth and touches the universal consciousness. I would think that these are the qualities of good art. Forget spiritualism. I have only seen Neptune manifest itself in pointless martyrdom and self loathing. Real spiritualism I have seen in Jupiter with its compassion, or Uranus with its humanitarianism. Spiritualism is not completely passive as Neptune seems to suggest.

So I think Neptune is a false prophet. From an age that thought it had mastered the world and science, only to be dumbfounded by Pluto and the Bomb.

Anyone with me?

It sounds like you have more of a problem with religion than Neptune.

[deleted possibly insulting remark - Moderator]

 

[The_Sundance_Kid]

It sounds like you have more of a problem with religion than Neptune.

How so? I'm not sure I understand- I thought I hadn't even mentioned religion.

 

[Inside Out Orange]

Neptune's still a degree away from it's opposition transits yet I'm noticing its effects. Silly little things like finding cups of tea still half-full where previously it was gone in minutes; or when I type posts atrocious spelling errors and/or poor sentence construction. Whole words missed out. I'm usually so precise ...

I'm beginning to really love my current transit ... I think the best thing has been that I've become a lot more go with the flow and undemanding ... there are some situations I would previously have confronted and got out of the way, but now I'm just accepting them; ignoring the less favourable parts of them, enjoying the positives and getting more out of the situations than I would have in the past. That said, it has definitely become harder to be confrontational. Also I've found myself using the carrot more than the stick in my influencing skills which has been positive ...

A couple of other side effects ... been drinking and playing the lottery more recently ... doing the crossword yesterday fitted in two obscure words that I really couldn't have told you the meaning of yet they fitted and turned out to be correct!

 

[GreenMist]

No, Unless peace, beauty, gentleness, the mysterious/magical, moraly qualities and harmony are malefic.

I think Neptune is the only true planet of "spirituality". Pluto can be destructive and power driven by itself, Uranus is just rebellous and anarchic without a cause. Neptune on it's own is just a gentle dreamer lying peacefully in the depts of the wide expansive ocean.

 

[natasa812]

I have never seen a chart where Neptune really manifests itself positively.

It always seems to confuse, alienate, isolate, and scandalise things. People turn to escapism, do not achieve their potential etc. Forget artistic inspiration. People who really seem talented in the arts all seem to have Jupiter, Venus or Pluto issues, and Pluto is the planet that sees the truth and touches the universal consciousness. I would think that these are the qualities of good art. Forget spiritualism. I have only seen Neptune manifest itself in pointless martyrdom and self loathing. Real spiritualism I have seen in Jupiter with its compassion, or Uranus with its humanitarianism. Spiritualism is not completely passive as Neptune seems to suggest.

So I think Neptune is a false prophet. From an age that thought it had mastered the world and science, only to be dumbfounded by Pluto and the Bomb.

Anyone with me?

I am with you. Completely.
My Neptune is in my 9th of education. What to tell... Music school, Printing school, Graphic design school, Social Politics University, out of number seminars I can not even remember... My current employement - nothing to do with the above education...

The only good thing about my Neptune is that squares Moon that rules my 6th of every day job so I don`t mix bussiness with feelings and I don`t see clients or partners in a ``cloudy`` picture (that would be a catastrophe - personaly and financially).

Oh, and another good thing - is in opposition with Saturn that rules my 11th and ``sits`` in my 3rd of communication so, everything in my friendships and communication is clear, stable, long living, mature and serious.

BTW, my (early - at 1st degree) AC is in Pisces and it is the only sign that COMPLETELLY I can not communicate with. I speak directly and they hear something else - they own version of reality. Makes me feel somehow strange. Like I am in another dimension.

Nothing good about Neptune. I agree.

 

[CarrieLee]

I must with all respect disagree, there is a dark side to this planet ..I used to believe in the good neptune until in my area I studied the chart of a Mother who murdered her child she is Pisces with a Mer in Pisces the murder happened a year ago and she lied lied lied lied for 31 days without reporting her daughter missing..
Neptune I have unfortunately have learned Can be deceitful...And murky and ugly at times..
We live in a world based on duality. Black and white, good and evil,
right and wrong and light and dark. If everything was all white we
wouldn't be able to see objects. It is the contrast in life that gives
it depth.

Without sadness joy wouldn't have meaning. Without anger peace wouldn't
feel peaceful. When we celebrate the contrast, without getting stuck
in it, we deepen our connection with our spirit.

I am an amatuer photographer Pisces rising with a Yod to Neptune Photography is "Light Writing" You must have the darkness and shadows to see the light

Must add another smiley because as I posted this I notice I am now a "Senior Member"

 

[JayM]

With respect I disagree. There are positive sides to all the planets, even saturn which turns into a firend once you have done enough work on it and learned the lessons. Possibly neptune is like that too, one book says that the positive side of neptune is that you "live an ideal" which you believe in. I think neptune is what introduces us to spirituality, and people that are into astrology are somewhat spiritual I think.

Neptune is also your dreams, not the dreams you have while sleeping but a dream of doing something (this is in most textbook examples of neptune).

Neptune is the tarot card the hanged man. This card represent someone who is reevaluating his/her priorities. He is giving up his ego controlled goals and is being directed by his spirituality, he is not relying on his own drive, cleverness/wit, and is not trying to chear death so to speak. Neptune based on sign and house position may be how we do that. If you look at the sword cards in a tarot deck they all represent lifes conflicts and struggles, this is because the swords represent our mind, and the more we use our own cleverness/wit and ego to solve these problems the more likely we are going to attract more conflict. Again, the point here is to give this up and rely on higher power and ask for help.

The obviusly negative side of neptune is the overly idealistec side that is usually blind to reality, we only see what we want to see, what we think those ideals say could possibly happen. I know I said that living an ideal is the positive side of neptune but not so much that we are blind to reality.

 

[GreenMist]

It's funny, but people who have a negative opinion of neptune tend to have little of it in their chart or else badly aspected.

Probabaly gives a greater insight into personality types and opinions rather than the nature of neptune. Some people just don't get neptune and bash it.

Again, the opposite is true for me, I tend to appreciate it's role as I have quite alot of it in my chart with mosty good aspects.

Neptune trine Moon, Neptune conjunction Juipiter, Neptune sextile venus and neptune sextile pluto

 

[allie_b]

I agree with CarrieLee. Neptune most definitely has a dark side.

The negative of Neptune to me is *confusion*; not seeing things clearly; believing illusions; seeing the best in people to a fault (where people take advantage of you) and also self-sacrificing to a fault.

And I also disagree with GreenMist about Uranus. I believe it is the spiritual planet, actually. It's not all about rebellion.

 

[GreenMist]

Well, it's true, the biggest downfall of Neptune is too much idealism and escapism... as well as for illusions,

I don't think there is such a thing as "reality".

As far as I know that laws of physics indicate that we are all pretty much in the dark in that regard.

There is also a subjective component to reality.. the individual conscousness and collective conscousness of people affect and change their reality.

Despite the faults of neptune, I don't think their is another planet that can claim to be the bringer of inspiration, hope and peace.

I am not sure in what way uranus can be seen as spiritual, it's focus is on innovation and freedom. The french revolution was great, it's only a pity the revolution was 360 degrees

Thats the problem with uranus and solidarity, they support the cause of the underdog without tackling the underlining problem. So, in the end one tyranny is replaced with another. i.e. communism, feminism

Neptune sees through this superficial facade to see that society can be changed through inner transformation and moral values. I don't think this is the domain of pluto. This process doesn't require a massive change, it's the subtile hand of neptune, a subtile change in attitudes that can change both the individual and society to become more peaceful and just. Even in the worst of situations. Pluto is pure power.

Finally lets mention illusion, if people could take the notion of illusion from neptune and apply this to their problems and see their problems and reality for the illusion that it is , then maybe they will have a simple solution.

 

[allie_b]

Neptune sees through nothing. Neptune is fog.

Personally, I see Uranus as a planet of awakening or intuitive spiritual energy and have found Uranus (as well as Pluto) transits to be quite spiritual in nature. Neptune transits were times of depression and/or confusion for me.

So we obviously see these planets differently. As you say, reality is subjective. This means each one of us has our own perspective on things.

People can see Neptune as spiritual if that's where they're coming from. I just have not seen it (in people's charts nor with my own personal Neptune transits).

 

[elumen]

What a great thread -- I've been missing up until now! I have a very Neptunian chart -- Neptune is conj. my Jupiter close to my MC, and it sends squares to Venus and Moon opposition. So my teacher used to say that Neptune is malefic and it "hurts" my Jupiter in Sag. I do not see it this way, in fact I do not think that anything "hurts" anything else, but I see the challenges it manifest. For starters, as my Neptune conj. my MC I am uncertain about my career goals, or as someone put it on this thread, even if I know my goals, I'm lacking clarity as to how to achieve them. I've known my interests and talents since my childhood, yet I chose to purse a completely different path until my 30s. Now, I'm trying to become a counselor and psychologist which is what my love and interest has been all along, but I got pulled in a different direction. Anyway, back to Neptune. I have felt greatly disillusioned and disappointed in love and personal relationships, and I lived in the world of my fantasy and dreams when it came to relationship. A lot of self-delusion b/c the reality was too painful to deal with, but eventually I had to deal with it. So the experiences were painful but I do not think its' Neptune's doing -- it is in my own psyche, so Neptune represents something that I own. With the Neptune transit over my Asc (which has been going on for over 13 years, as my 1st house is huge), my old sense of self dissolved, and I became a somewhat different person. My friends from childhood though say I'm still the same, lol, but I experienced it as a dissolution of the self as I knew it and many of my values collapsed. Perhaps, due to my very optimistic Jupiter I feel it is all good and welcome experience but it had been the most difficult when I was in it.

 

[GreenMist]

Just wondering what you mean by uranus awakening spiritual energy, and what did it do for you?

It's just I have never seen Uranus associated with spirituality in particular..from what I understand of it's influenece, it is associated with originality, technology, solidarity,enterprise, individuality, freedom with rebellousness and lack of discipline being a negative aspect of that planet.

From what I have learned about Neptune it is associated with inspiration, moral receptivity, emotions, imagination and the superior yearnings of the mind to change our condition..on the negative it is associated with illusion, idealism, excess and confusion.

For sure, Neptune is not a good planet for materialism, quite the worst, unless it helps with an artistic or intellectual gift.. for a small few.. But it doesn't lay claim for that. ( doesn't help with finance)

I will still contend that despite it's draw backs, and there are many, but for the hope and magic it offers Neptune second to venus means alot to me.