Jiddu Krishnamurti + Connections to Theosophical Society & Edward Carpenter.

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Rodden Rating is B, i'm very suspicious of this, Alan Leo's birth name was William Frederick Allen, He probably used Leo as his rising sign was Leo and so was his Sun sign, but reading through the notes, for many years he thought his birth time was approx. 06:00am.
Lets Look at the notes on this:-

Source Notes​


Data given in his book "Esoteric Astrology." In his book, “The Progressed Horoscope,” he published his chart with the word “approximately” after the time.

Sy Scholfield quotes from "The Life and Work of Alan Leo" by his widow Bessie Leo (London: Modern Astrology, 1919), p. 177: "Alan Leo was born at Westminster on August 7, 1860, and Mr Lacey has mentioned that the time originally given was 6 a.m. The result of rectification was to change the ascendant from the beginning of Virgo to the end of Leo, and the accompanying map, set for approximately 5.49 a.m., is that which was considered by Mr Leo himself to be his true horoscope."
Firstly i'm not keen on rectification, above is wrong, as the Leo Asc. didn't change to Virgo till 06:06am.
Well he wouldn't want an Algol M.C, by paran at 05:52am.
I feel that he loved his Leo sign, so would have liked the Alpha Star of Leo rising being Regulus, so was rectified, but didn't make it true!
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Leo,_Alanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_LeoOriginal time was approx 06:00, Asc didn't change to Virgo till 06:06 as shown below:-

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By choosing TOB by rectifying, this gave him Regulus rising, the alpha star of Leo, and Royal Persian Star of the North, by Paran and projected measure, as Regulus sits on ecliptic so would show the same.

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The Astrological Association of Great Britain did use electional astrology when it was formed in London on the Summer Solstice being 21 June 1958.
I don't have a problem with this however i don't agree that this type of astrology is used in politics without it being known by the electorate.
Firstly you will see at time, date and location, Jupiter is conjunct the M.C. by under one degree, by looking at the parans, Spica is culminating!
Jupiter would enlarge the qualities of Spica, graphs and links below:-

https://www.astro.com/edu/ed_aasociation_e.htm
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Quote from Lucis Trust Above:-
"A publishing company, initially named Lucifer Publishing Company, was established by Alice and Foster Bailey in the State of New Jersey, USA, in May 1922 to publish the book, Initiation Human and Solar. The ancient myth of Lucifer refers to the angel who brought light to the world, and it is assumed that the name was applied to the publishing company in honour of a journal, which had been edited for a number of years by theosophical founder, HP Blavatsky. It soon became clear to the Bailey’s that some Christian groups have traditionally mistakenly identified Lucifer with Satan, and for this reason the company’s name was changed in 1924 to Lucis Publishing Company."
And another quote:-
"Lucis Trust was established by Alice and Foster Bailey as a vehicle to foster recognition of the universal spiritual principles at the heart of all work to build right relations. The Trust was incorporated in the State of New Jersey, USA, on April 5, 1922"
Hopefully i'm right that this was placed in the Capitol Trenton.
By observing many charts, day markers have been used, at location the chart using midnight day marker, Jupiter is conjunct M.C. by under a degree.
While Alnilam is conjunct Desc. by projected measure this would of expanded Alnilam, graphs below:-

555-300.jpg555-301.jpg
 
Monk said:
Rodden Rating is B, i'm very suspicious of this,
Click to expand...
Rodden B rating is dubious - unreliable :)
Monk said:
Alan Leo's birth name was William Frederick Allen, He probably used Leo as his rising sign was Leo and so was his Sun sign, but reading through the notes, for many years he thought his birth time was approx. 06:00am.
Lets Look at the notes on this:-

Source Notes​

Click to expand...

Monk said:
Data given in his book "Esoteric Astrology." In his book, “The Progressed Horoscope,” he published his chart with the word “approximately” after the time.

Sy Scholfield quotes from "The Life and Work of Alan Leo" by his widow Bessie Leo (London: Modern Astrology, 1919), p. 177: "Alan Leo was born at Westminster on August 7, 1860, and Mr Lacey has mentioned that the time originally given was 6 a.m. The result of rectification was to change the ascendant from the beginning of Virgo to the end of Leo, and the accompanying map, set for approximately 5.49 a.m., is that which was considered by Mr Leo himself to be his true horoscope."
Firstly i'm not keen on rectification, above is wrong, as the Leo Asc. didn't change to Virgo till 06:06am.
Well he wouldn't want an Algol M.C, by paran at 05:52am.
I feel that he loved his Leo sign, so would have liked the Alpha Star of Leo rising being Regulus, so was rectified, but didn't make it true!
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Leo,_Alanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_LeoOriginal time was approx 06:00, Asc didn't change to Virgo till 06:06 as shown below:-

View attachment 113446
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Monk said:
What i don't understand is when trying to promote an esoteric philosophy that some people would be interested in, why Blavatsky would name her magazine Lucifer, which would put off some people,
Click to expand...
Clearly Blavatsky Intended
to attract specific types :)

Monk said:
Alice Bailey followed with the Lucifer Publishing Company.
Click to expand...
siriusly curiouser and curiouser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_(magazine)#/media/File:Blavlucifer.jpg
https://www.lucistrust.org/about_us/history
 
Hi Jup,
Thanks for your comments, i'm leaving this thread alone tomorrow, i need to catch up on some of your threads, bed time, yawn!



cats a cat yawing Yawning Stock Photo
 
Monk: You are correct in stating you didn't see anything pointing to a saint in K's chart. He was a womanizer and really lived a double life.
He took his best friend's wife and for years had an affair with her as well as with other women at the same time. This crushed the very senstive scientist David Bohm when he found out that all these years perceiving K as a special human was for naught.

I don't know if you are familiar with the story or not. I can see if I can find the background on it if you are not.

Bohm, David Physicist

Colleague of Einstein & Krishnamurti

Suffered 3rd life’s major depression when finding out about K’s

Affairs…and apparent life contradictions just before he died.

I found this however which pretty much gives a bit of what I am saying:

Like an ageing Hollywood star, Krishna became cut off from those who knew him well and treated him like an equal, and instead surrounded himself with a court of sycophants, who copied his mannerisms, his hair-style, even his toothpaste brand.

The physicist David Bohm, a close associate of Krishnamurti’s last years, thought there was something hypocritical in this. Bohm’s biographer and friend, F. David Peat, says:

people did treat him as a guru and did behave as if he were a guru. And I think that disturbed Dave. He felt there was some sort of incompatibility in this, something paradoxical. He began to wonder about the extent to which Krishnamurti may have been conditioned by his own upbringing…
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Roland Vernon writes in Krishna’s defence:

he did not amass personal wealth [yes he did, just not in his name], he did not establish a personality cult [yes he did], he did not take sexual advantage of his followers [we don’t know, but he certainly took emotional and financial advantage], nor did he subject those around him to irrational cruelties [yes he did]…he refused to be regarded as an authority [no he didn’t]

His public persona was as a sharp-thinking yet loving teacher. Kahlil Gibran said that when he entered my room, he said to himself, ‘Surely the Lord of Love has come’. But his behaviour to those close to him was far from loving.

He abandoned his father, he used Annie Besant and then ditched her, he insisted his brother shouldn’t marry Rosalind and then slept with her himself, he insisted his girlfriend Helen shouldn’t be a violinist but should instead dedicate herself to his life; he opposed the marriage of Rosalind to Rajagopal, then secretly took her as his mistress; he demanded his best friend Lady Emily Lutyens bin her adoring biography of him the week before it went to press; he bullied and criticized his followers; he drove David Bohm to a nervous breakdown; he demoralized the headmasters of his various schools through his interference. And he ruined the lives of his two closest associates — Rajagopal and Rosalind — with two decades of law suits.
https://www.philosophyforlife.org/blog/krishnamurti-the-lonely-hollywood-star
 
This revelation sounds like a continuum of karma that doesn't end between the 3 of them at the least:

Krishnamurti is found in his letter to Rajagopal in 1989 supporting him in pursuing the truth through his litigation against his previous life-long companion, Krishnamurti, reproduced in Baskin's book (Diane Baskin Divine Memories of Sathya Sai Speaks new ed., p. 234). The latter not only tried to dispossess Rajagopal of any share in what he had built up after decades of selfless, unpaid services (penning all the many Krishnamurti books) but had also lived in a secret sexual relationship with Rajagopal's wife for decades. (Radha Rajagopal Sloss Lives in the Shadow with J. Krishnamurti. London 1993)

It may be said that Krishnamurthi's books were hardly scriptures, but rather consist mainly in insights into psychological self-development, emancipation from religious supersitions and freedom of the individual to develop through understanding of oneself and others in the world in which we actually find ourselves. All this is anathema to SSB, who often denies that there is any such thing as 'freedom' (which he never defines), mostly preaches that all normal worldly engagements are futile and whose account of reality contains many traditional Indian superstitions. No wonder that SSB attacked Krishnamurthi as he claimed he did to VKN.



A scathing biography is reviewed after Rejapogal’s daughter writes of her mother’s affair with Jiddhu, K. in this link;

http://www.terra.es/personal/jcarlos12silva/REFLECTI.HTM

His actual Horoscope is here (by Ken Gillman who wrote the Astrology Magazine) with various Charts etc: (LINK)
JIDDU KISHNAMURTI was born shortly after midnight, at 12:30 a.m. on May 12, 1895 (May 11 by the Indian calendar) in the small hill town of Madanapalle, about a hundred and fifty miles north of Madras. That was when the assisting midwife called to the waiting father, "Sirsodayam!", meaning the head is visible. According to Indian tradition, that is the precise moment of birth. The following day Kumara Shrowthulu, a noted astrologer in the area, cast the child's horoscope and predicted he would be a great teacher but only after contending with mountainous obstacles. The boy's father, Narayaniah, later gave copies of the original horoscope in Sanskrit and English to the astrologer S. E. Sutcliffe. It was published in The Theosophist of April 1932.

His Mercury conjuncts Algol and he has Venus in Gemini in the 5th of love affairs
 

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Hi Leomoon,
Thank you for your detailed thread section, i will reply tomorrow.
Although i don't attack the Dalai Lama, i do have information on how he may have been found as a Guru.
I think firstly i would like to tackle the way that the Dalai Lama XIV was picked.
He was born in a small village, that i don't have a fix for but the Latitude and longitude is 36*N22', 101*E51' as shown on right top of link below, he was born in Taktser:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taktser
The nearest fix is Xining at 36*N37', 101*E46', which is close enough:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xining
How they choose a Dalai Lama is below, it seems very suspect to some but not all:-


I think there is another way to find him when he was born on 6th July 1935, but is a secret way, he was born at 04:38 in the morning, before sunrise, therefore if you want to use ancient Egyptian daymarker to start parans, you would have to use sunrise from day before, being 5th July at approx. location.
The Sun rises with Alnilam, Belt of Orion and Osiris star, astronomy graph below:-
However if we use midnight daymarker for 6th July 1935 at approx. location of birth, we find Sirius on the Nadir at True North, this gives both Latitude and Longitude to find a new born baby, does it sound like another Bible story??
Astronomy graphs below:-

picture 239 40% (2).png
 
Hi Leomoon,
I like your reply, i still don't see why the Theosophical Society chose Jiddu Krishnamurti, although with many leaders who where in the Society, they may have chosen them from the ranks who had a connection to Sirius or Alnilam by paran by day starts of sunrise, previous sunset, or midnight.
As is the case with Anna Kingsford:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_KingsfordUsing midnight day marker on day of birth, we find Alnilam rising.

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Monk said:
Hi Leomoon,
I like your reply, i still don't see why the Theosophical Society chose Jiddu Krishnamurti, although with many leaders who where in the Society, they may have chosen them from the ranks who had a connection to Sirius or Alnilam by paran by day starts of sunrise, previous sunset, or midnight.
As is the case with Anna Kingsford:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_KingsfordUsing midnight day marker on day of birth, we find Alnilam rising.

View attachment 113511
Click to expand...
Hello Monk: I suppose (being as old as I am) - and recalling back in time; they were enthusiastic of course about the young boy and his brother that Annie Besant and Leadbetter found or was it the others? (Alice Bailey or the other woman, I can't recall now) who found him originally in India. I even have this tiny book from a Unity Church found in the 70s, written by him entitled "At the Feet of the Master" reprinted 1974. Foreward by Annie Besant who speaks of a younger brother, but "old in soul" Krishnaji, and this being his first gift to the world. (Ascribed to Alcoyne) see below:

He wrote it as being something of a writing that came to him in meditation or trance state. "What the Master has said to me on each of these I shall try to tell you" he says - regarding Discrimination, Desirelessness, Good conduct & Love.

Surely, the boy was talented, there is no question here and we should see this in his natal chart. But even with "automatic writing" which I have witnessed myself in my own family; there is a difference between the human being, flesh & blood (their mortal wants & desires) and their soul while temporarily communicating on a different plane.

No one is perfect. My favorite prayers come from the Psalms of David, yet King David was far from perfect as a man. David Bohm found out too late. As smart as he was, he was also quite naive. He also had a daddy issue in life and went to a psychiatrist for this problem for decades. Likely he projected his need for a "father figure" onto Jiddu K. so it was a double fall from grace. We should not put others on a higher plane than our own inner guidance. (imo)

And then too, you might want to consider the rumor that Leadbetter was attracted to young boys. I don't know that he didn't have a personal sexual attraction to this good looking child:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Webster_Leadbeater#Resignation_from_the_Theosophical_SocietyLeadbeater believed Krishnamurti to be a suitable candidate for the "vehicle" of the World Teacher, a reputed messianic entity[49] whose imminent appearance he and many Theosophists were expecting. The proclaimed savior would then usher in a new age and religion.

Leadbeater assigned the pseudonym Alcyone to Krishnamurti and under the title "Rents in the Veil of Time", he published 30 reputed past lives of Alcyone in a series in The Theosophist magazine beginning in April 1910. "They ranged from 22,662 BC to 624 AD ... Alcyone was a female in eleven of them."[51]

Leadbeater stayed in India until 1915, overseeing the education of Krishnamurti; he then relocated to Australia. During the late 1920s, Krishnamurti disavowed the role that Leadbeater and other Theosophists expected him to fulfil.[52]

note:
 
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Hi Leomoon,
A lot of philosophy of the Theosophical Society and The Golden Dawn were bound up in the start of the UK Labour Party, i support this party but wish religion and beliefs were separate from politics.
A moral code doesn't need religious beliefs to spend tax for the people, although also being careful of fraud.
The genesis of the Labour Party was the Fabian society, many of the people already mentioned had links to this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgson_Report
 
Dear Monk: I recall many moons ago, talking with Jamie from Astrology King - prior to his site. He was trying to figure out whether or not fixed stars in connection with the planets in a natal chart were worth bothering with. At that time his fiance was using them on her site and so was I. It was more controversial back then when I wrote a book about Algol & the Military Generals which he took some interest in. Bernadette Brady said no to the connection to the planets but now she too has reversed herself. NOW, they are giving him credit (and he deserves it) for being bold and saying trump could be assassinated with Algol on the MC - and it would be from a "shot to the head or neck" a rather "long shot" (no pun intended) even with Algol in our chart. With all that Virgo Stellium in his natal chart, he was watching the transits when the rest of us weren't I suppose. Both Mars & Uranus were conjunct trump's MC where Algol is in his natal chart. Seems Jamie is more a fan than I am however.
Interesting what he has to say too about the star you are studying Alnilam and the Moon:
From Jamie Partridge:
Fixed star Alnilam at 22 ♊ 42 is the middle star of the Belt of Orion. In general it gives public honor. Good aspects (sextile Mars-Ascendant) indicate being able to do really great things and to be well rewarded as a result. Challenging aspects (opposite Moon) give a tendency towards useless bravado. Sun conjunct Alnilam reinforces his rash, headstrong and bad-tempered nature.
Click to expand...
https://astrologyking.com/donald-trump-horoscope/
https://astrologyking.com/jamie-partridge/
 
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