Lets talk about Karma

[Blaze]

So, Karma. Karma means action, and if whatever we do has repercussions what does that mean for something we didn't actually do?

An example: Lets look at Hitler. The man was a horrible person who committed horrible acts. However, how many of those actions did he himself commit?

Is there karmic debt to be paid if one has others act horribly for him?

I know very little about karma so cut me some slack, but don't hold back on the info.

 

[Oddity]

Not a concept I find useful, karma, but I am in the minority here.

I always liked that bit in the bible about how the sins of the fathers would be visited on the sons. E.g., you can make a mess, and it's later generations that pay for it. And pay. And pay.

It seems a reasonably accurate assessment to me, whilst telling someone that they 'chose' whatever horror they're living through, or that they're paying for sins from 38 lifetimes ago - do not.

I suppose that could be considered karmic, but really, the word has been horribly abused in the west, and has no place in our vocabulary.

 

[Blaze]

I actually agree, Oddity. To me, Karma just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Hence why I'm trying to understand the idea.

The problem with karma, from my shallow understanding of it is this,

>Karma means action. Whatever bad we do to others, will be brought back to us in this or some other life time.

Using that understanding,

>If one is a rapist, they themselves will be raped or murdered by the ones they owe karmic debt to.

>But by doing that, they themselves become rapist or murderers and now owe karmic debt to the person that owed them karmic debt. Thus creating a cycle of karma.

I'm probably confusing myself.

 

[Blaze]

Perhaps there are different ways to "repay" karma?

But even so, what happens when others commit horrible acts for others? Does the one who ordered the act owe karmic debt? both involved?

 

[noraleader]

to appreciate the notion of karma, one needs some experience with systemic dynamics. perhaps with age and experience, the scope of the vagaries of causality are easier to appreciate in reference to selfish/subjective ideas like "justice".

even purely psychologically, we subject ourselves to our actions. if you kill someone, you create a real universe in which someone can be killed, and that universe is then true and implicit in your experience and consideration.

"subsequent generations bearing the sins of their forefathers" may take more of a cautionary reading.

try developing software, and see how easy it is to ***** things up with minor errors or misjudgements. or setting up dominos. you'll find out, it's not like there is only one way to accidentally knock over all your dominos.. you can nudge them with your elbow, your shirt cuff, you can slam a door too hard, you can bump something off the table when you put your drink down, you can overexcite the cat and they can do it for you.

you realise there are myriad ways to knock over most if not all of your dominos. so it's not like A = A, it's more like A = B, B = C, C = D, therefore A = D. systems.

 

[Blaze]

NL- I get that part. Different ways for karmic debt to be repaid(And different ways for karmic debt to be acquired). But what about when others, namely, tyrants or dictators, have others commit violent acts. Does the one ordering the deaths of innocents suffer karmic debt or do the ones committing the act?

 

[Oddity]

NL- I get that part. Different ways for karmic debt to be repaid(And different ways for karmic debt to be acquired). But what about when others, namely, tyrants or dictators, have others commit violent acts. Does the one ordering the deaths of innocents suffer karmic debt or do the ones committing the act?

Possibly stating the obvious here, but in this world it seems that the victims are often the ones who pay.

 

[noraleader]

in that case, these persons would certainly have some cause to wonder about what it is exactly life is

as i say, cultivate consideration, do not seek certainty. if and when it appears, you will not have to grasp for it, it will be there, or it will not be there. don't be proud and hurry to adopt something so you can proclaim that you own it.

 

[JUPITERASC]

So, Karma.

Karma means action, and if whatever we do has repercussions
what does that mean for something we didn't actually do?

An example: Lets look at Hitler.
The man was a horrible person who committed horrible acts.
However, how many of those actions did he himself commit?

Is there karmic debt to be paid if one has others act horribly for him?

I know very little about karma
so cut me some slack, but don't hold back on the info.

Karma = Action

There are three BASIC types:

PHYSICAL action

VERBAL action

and

MENTAL action.

Every action leaves an imprint


Physical actions may produce tangible residue

whereas


verbal and mental karma create intangible imprints.


Analyze the trail of any karma
and one may be surprised

how it may wane
but

never gets destroyed completely.
It is the residue of each karma that conditions one

 

[Blaze]

So in other words, Karmic debt will be taken on by those who give orders of action? Or by anyone? Whatever action it may be has no bearing on good or evil, it simply "is" and thus will be payed back?

I should note that, personally, I'm not a believer in karma. Looking at the news will show anyone why I'm not on that end of belief....but learning for the sake of learning is sometimes good, I think.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Karma = action
Action has consequences

 

[Julia Karmic Astrology]

So, Karma. Karma means action, and if whatever we do has repercussions what does that mean for something we didn't actually do?

An example: Lets look at Hitler. The man was a horrible person who committed horrible acts. However, how many of those actions did he himself commit?

Is there karmic debt to be paid if one has others act horribly for him?

I know very little about karma so cut me some slack, but don't hold back on the info.

Incurred karma reflects intent.

A person who does not actually commit a crime, but manipulates, threatens, or coerces others into bad behavior, is going to be the one to incur a karmic debt. Actually two major debts, harm to others and the manipulation/control of others for personal and selfish gain.

In terms of the regular solider, a person who kills another, sincerely and honestly operating out of duty and honor for the protection of others, incurs no karmic debt. However this does not mean that a person can put his head in the sand and use poor judgement and allow himself to be manipulated, or ignore ugly truths.

Those operating in horrific and heinous ways, such as the extermination and torture of other human beings, are going to face some fairly serious karma in this life or the next.

There are also many kinds of karma, personal, family, clan, group, societal.
Many souls born after WWII came back with some collective karma associated with the war,

Hope this helps.

Julia

 

[Oddity]

Allow me to play devil's advocate here. 'I was only following orders' didn't hold up too well at Nuremburg.

 

[Julia Karmic Astrology]

I actually agree, Oddity. To me, Karma just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Hence why I'm trying to understand the idea.

The problem with karma, from my shallow understanding of it is this,

>Karma means action. Whatever bad we do to others, will be brought back to us in this or some other life time.

Using that understanding,

>If one is a rapist, they themselves will be raped or murdered by the ones they owe karmic debt to.

>But by doing that, they themselves become rapist or murderers and now owe karmic debt to the person that owed them karmic debt. Thus creating a cycle of karma.

I'm probably confusing myself.

There are many ways to pay off a karmic debt.

A rapist may come back in his next life as a helpless, powerless female, in order to compensate for abusing power in a past life. Or have sexual dysfunction in this life. Or perhaps spend a lifetime of service, working in a rape counseling center.

You raise a good point about the continued and growing cycle of karma. This issue is being addressed.

 

[JUPITERASC]

KARMA = ACTION

ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES

The consequences of PHYSICAL action is sometimes more obvious
than the consequences of VERBAL action
or
MENTAL action
nevertheless
all actions have consequences


for example
the consequence of a mental action such as a thought
may lead to a verbal action
or
may lead to a physical action

 

[Julia Karmic Astrology]

Allow me to play devil's advocate here. 'I was only following orders' didn't hold up too well at Nuremburg.

It doesn't hold up at all with our guides and angels on the other side.
We get sent to karmic time out, pronto.

 

[Blaze]

Now I'm a bit more confused. If the intent wasn't "impure" or there, then there is no karmic debt to be paid?

So, that would mean that if I set up a latter that fell and somehow killed 3 people, there would be no karmic debt to be paid because I didn't intend to kill?

What about people who worked on Nazi death camps? Or better yet, what about Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Were the drivers of the planes that dropped the bombs free of karmic debt since they believed they were doing the right thing?

 

[JUPITERASC]

 

[Julia Karmic Astrology]

So in other words, Karmic debt will be taken on by those who give orders of action? Or by anyone? Whatever action it may be has no bearing on good or evil, it simply "is" and thus will be payed back?

I should note that, personally, I'm not a believer in karma. Looking at the news will show anyone why I'm not on that end of belief....but learning for the sake of learning is sometimes good, I think.

You don't have to believe in karma to accrue good karma or incur karmic debt.
Right now you are incurring karmic grace, you are sincerely attempting to understand profound spiritual beliefs. You are asking and questioning in an intelligent, honest and sincere way. This is very good.

In terms of how karma works, and the ugly realities we see every day in the news:
We don't really know the karma and soul lessons involved. So I try not to judge others.

 

[JUPITERASC]

ETHICAL BEHAVIOR IS APPLICABLE IN MANY CIRCUMSTANCES
INCLUDING BUSINESS