Lots = Pillars of Fate

[poyi]

RayAustin said:

A) If you were born with the sun under the horizon (i.e. : nocturnal chart, night birth)

Note what sign the moon is. Say it is in Cancer, for example.

Count the signs from Taurus (moon’s exaltation) to Cancer. Including your starting point in the count, you will get the number three (Taurus, Gemini, and Cancer).

Now, progress the ascendant three signs. If the ascendant happened to be Cancer as well, your sign of exaltation would be Virgo.

In Tina’s chart, the moon is in Gemini. We take two steps forwards from Taurus counter-clockwise and the same two steps forwards from the Ascendant, which makes her exaltation Virgo, and its ruler mercury.

If the moon happened to be in Aries, we can take two steps, but backwards, and then two steps backwards from the ascendant.

I am using this on myself to see what comes up. My Moon in Capricorn, 5th house. Taurus is the 5th sign of Capricorn Moon. But I soon got very confused for the rest of the manual steps when "she" used the teaching chart. Anyone happy to explain to me further? This is a very useful tool so I really want to learn how to do it!!!!!!

 

[dr. farr]

I will note that these techniques are very similar to some of those used in the Nadi and Jaimini branches of Vedic astrology; note that in Vedic astrology in general (including mainstream "Parasara" Vedic) the concept of "multiple ascendants" is very popular, and allows viewing of a given chart from a number of variable perspectives: this is somewhat what Ray Austin is doing with this oldtime Western technique.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I always wish I could read all languages Latin, Greek, Arabic etc so I can learn their astrology first handed! Language is a huge barrier to learn advance astrology more than anything else!

Even if language is a barrier to your personal reading of these ancient texts in arabic and Latin,
keep in mind Robert Schmidt, Robert Hand and Robert Zoller formed Project Hindsight
specifically to translate these ancient texts into English
which is a language you are increasingly proficient with even though it is not your native language
and we are fortunate to be able to read their published translations which are available from http://www.projecthindsight.com/index1.html

BENJAMIN DYKES is another traditional astrology scholar
and translator of ancient texts
with several arabic translations to English on offer and AVAILABLE NOW:

Introductions to Traditional Astrology,
Paperback Sahl-Masha'allah,
Persian Nativities III,
Complete Bonatti Reprints:
http://www.bendykes.com/

These texts all contain valuable translated information on the Lots also known as Pillars of Fate

 

[poyi]

Thank you for posting these links. I always get very greedy on books, these will take me a while to really read through them and attempt to apply what I learned. I can always go back to this thread for the links!

 

[Cap]

In calculating the Foundation ("Basis" or "Pillar"), we find that the early Islamic-transitional era practitioners (who seem to have used this Lot much more frequenty than the earlier Greco/Romans did) gave reversed formula for day/night: eg, the day formula was asc+POS-POF, while the night formula was asc+POF-POS; so the significator and trigger elements, reversed for diurnal vs nocturnal nativities.
In my own use of the "Foundation" ("Basis"), which I have applied for synastry evaluation purposes (which I have given a few examples of in posts to some synastry questions here on AW) I stick to only one formula, regardless of day or night, and that forumla is asc+POS-POF.

In Antoine Garth's book "The Five Hidden Pillars Of Fate" and also in some discussions on Skyscript forum I've found this instruction for finding Lot of Basis:

Find the "Basis" by determining the number of degrees in the shortest arc between the lots of Fortune and of Spirit, regardless of the direction of the signs. Add that number to the ascendant.
The Lot of Basis will be either Lot of Eros (pars Veneris) or Lot of Necessity (pars Mercurii). The lot which is under ASC/DSC axis is lot of Basis.

Does anyone know if this technique for finding Lot of Basis has historical background in writings of ancient authors?

 

[JUPITERASC]

In Antoine Garth's book "The Five Hidden Pillars Of Fate" and also in some discussions on Skyscript forum I've found this instruction for finding Lot of Basis:

Find the "Basis" by determining the number of degrees in the shortest arc between the lots of Fortune and of Spirit, regardless of the direction of the signs. Add that number to the ascendant.
The Lot of Basis will be either Lot of Eros (pars Veneris) or Lot of Necessity (pars Mercurii). The lot which is under ASC/DSC axis is lot of Basis.

Does anyone know if this technique for finding Lot of Basis has historical background in writings of ancient authors?

The following are three QUOTES from Antoine Garth's study "The Five Hidden Pillars Of Fate, Fortune and Destiny In Astrology" viewable entirely for FREE at http://www.scribd.com/doc/6956746/Five-Pillars-of-Fate-Fortune-and-Destiny-in-Astrology


'…...Antoine Garth, astrologer presents: YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LIKE HOW THIS STARTS : THREE FATBLOWS TO THE MODERN HEAD Study of fortune and destiny has been recovered from Vettius Valens ANTHOLOGY. We consult the second century astrologer to return to an astrology not known since his time. This will force three major traumas upon us as astrologers:

Hard Hit #1

First, we are working within a deterministic system seeking to be privy to inscrutable workings of Fate. Ae modern thinkers may protest such a domination of symbol over lifestyle, and may wish to reject this idea as insufficiently allowing us to properly assign "Free Will" to our ego nature.....'



'…..Ironically, this system is useful for highlighting how Ego can prevent a more fortunate fate from occurring. i.e. The system of these five additional, calculated "lots" creates an astrological universe of its own revealing hidden aspect of the chart, our own role in it, and indicators we must follow in order to fulfill our destiny. Finding this spot can be the "Aha!" moment for clients as well. But we must first subject our modern astrological stance to three traumas to fully comprehend this perspective. Modern astrologers' problem with determinism revolves around adding man and his ability to choose into the cosmic equation, which includes unforeseen events and their impact....'



'…..All of the twists and turns in the story of life are either predetermined or up for grabs. I say fate and free-will can peacefully coexist, but we must also equal in the Law of Karma. Karma, the sanskrit word for action, not only includes the grand and all encompassing but also the mundane and every day. By understanding primarily that the planets are the instruments of fate, the astrologer can witness and make known each native's karmic "lot" or portion. The Lot of Fortune is the first key to revealing the native's hidden universe of apportionment, or, more simply stated, the native's lot in life....'

 

[JUPITERASC]

SKYSCRIPT DISCUSSION
IS THE LOT OF BASIS UNDERESTIMATED? http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5490

 

[Cap]

Thanks JUPITERASC!

I have found it in Valens anthologies II book (p.38):

Do the same for the Lot of Basis: it is found by determining the distance from Fortune to Daimon <for day births> or from Daimon to Fortune <for night births>, then counting that distance from the Ascendant. /88K/ (The distance will not exceed the number 7 <=7 signs> for night or day births but it is necessary to take the distance from the nearest Lot to the other Lot.)

 

[theV]

Re: 10 rules of Antoine Garth

Basis is a Lot mentioned by Bonatti and extensively applied during the Islamic transitional era: it was looked at as part of the "fundamental natal Lot" basis of a horoscope, together with the Pars Hyleg and the Pars Vitae (Part of Life); the Basis (ascendant + POF - POS) can be used as the first house of a "Foundation" chart, perhaps even more effectively than the Fortuna chart (where the POF is used as the first house of the turned horoscope)

can you tell me more about this part cause it conjunct my sun and venus

 

[theV]

I always wish I could read all languages Latin, Greek, Arabic etc so I can learn their astrology first handed! Language is a huge barrier to learn advance astrology more than anything else!

I am arabic and it my mother langauge i could help you

 

[theV]

RayAustin said:

I am using this on myself to see what comes up. My Moon in Capricorn, 5th house. Taurus is the 5th sign of Capricorn Moon. But I soon got very confused for the rest of the manual steps when "she" used the teaching chart. Anyone happy to explain to me further? This is a very useful tool so I really want to learn how to do it!!!!!!

I also can't figure out my exaltation sign

 

[Cap]

Pars Vitae

can you tell me more about this part cause it conjunct my sun and venus

From Zoller's "Bonatti on Arabic Parts"

Pars Vitae
...And therefore, for this reason the part of life or pars vitae and its extraction ought to be considered, for by this the quality of the life of the native is determined and what kind of existence {esse} he will have...
...This part is taken by the day from Jupiter to Saturn and by night the reverse, and it is projected from the ascendant....
...This part is the significatrix of the natural life and signifies the condition {esse} of the body and its sustenance. If it is well disposed, it signifies length of life and its continuity, the safety of the body, and the vitality of the soul. If, however, it is impeded, it signifies paucity of life and the shortness of it and its evil quality with a multitude of diverse infirmities and with sorrow of soul and the sadness of it. This, therefore, will signify the quality of men in revolutions of the years both in nativities and in the world...

 

[dr. farr]

Re: Pars Vitae

This was also given as such by much earlier authors, such as Abu Mashar (9th century), and as I remember, traces back to the Hellenist Lots (such as found in Paulus Alexandrianus in the 4th century)

 

[holisticweb]

I think this is a great discussion and I am going to try and follow along with the various charts and more. However, I do need to clear one point up that is confusing me and that is the Lot of Basis. I read Mr Hand's description and this is what has caused my confusion I quote;
Begin Quote

Lot of Basis
Day or Night Lot = Asc. + PF - Sp
or Lot = Asc. + Sp - PF
Here however it is not day or night that determines the order of the formula. Instead we use whichever is the shorter arc. IF PF - Sp is more than 180 degrees, we use Sp - PF, and vice versa. Its position is always below the horizon or exactly on the Ascendant or Descendant because the Sp to PF arc can never be more than 180 degrees. This may have something to do with its signification because it is always below the earth like a foundation. Also as with Fortuna and Spirit, New Moons and Full Moons have special significance with this lot. At the New Moon all three lots are conjunct the Ascendant, and at the Full Moon, they are all conjunct the Descendant.

End Quote.
So with my reasoning this puts LOB at 13Gem42 in the 3rd house, ie below the horizon.
I am not saying that Hand is right and you are wrong I just want clarification before I continue my study.
see http://astro-app.com/get_chart.php?chart=145

 

[Konrad]

I think this is a great discussion and I am going to try and follow along with the various charts and more. However, I do need to clear one point up that is confusing me and that is the Lot of Basis. I read Mr Hand's description and this is what has caused my confusion I quote;
Begin Quote

Lot of Basis
Day or Night Lot = Asc. + PF - Sp
or Lot = Asc. + Sp - PF
Here however it is not day or night that determines the order of the formula. Instead we use whichever is the shorter arc. IF PF - Sp is more than 180 degrees, we use Sp - PF, and vice versa. Its position is always below the horizon or exactly on the Ascendant or Descendant because the Sp to PF arc can never be more than 180 degrees. This may have something to do with its signification because it is always below the earth like a foundation. Also as with Fortuna and Spirit, New Moons and Full Moons have special significance with this lot. At the New Moon all three lots are conjunct the Ascendant, and at the Full Moon, they are all conjunct the Descendant.

End Quote.
So with my reasoning this puts LOB at 13Gem42 in the 3rd house, ie below the horizon.
I am not saying that Hand is right and you are wrong I just want clarification before I continue my study.
see http://astro-app.com/get_chart.php?chart=145

Hand is right. The Lot is used in Valens withFortune, Spirit and Exaltation and is always below the earth.

 

[hermetic]

Quick question about lots - do we count conjunction of two lots, namely lot of fortune and lot of marriage? If there are no planets involved I realize these are simply points not physical bodies thus no light, would a conjunction like this have any significance at all, beyond both lots having the same ruler?