Modern constallations along the ecliptic

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Ancient sky-watchers used the rotating (to them) celestial calendar for weather prediction and religious observances long before they got into astrology! A good example of this is Aratus, Phaenomena, a Greek author. The ability to predict the change in seasons was really important to both farmers and sea-farers. The Egyptians and Sumerians et al., living in a land of very little rain, could use star positions to predict when the Nile and Tigris-Euphrates would rise, flooding their fields in preparation for the next season's planting. Rising and setting stars also were important for timing religious festivals.

Then there was a lot of lore about what it meant to see a halo around the moon, whether you could see Praesepe, and so on, in terms of more immediate weather-forecasting.

It is too bad that we've lost these meanings
 
The truth of the matter is that today the Vernal equinox is in the constellation Pisces. In Ptolemy's time (150 C.E.) it was in Aries, in ancient Mesopotamia (ca. 2000 BCE) in Taurus, before then (4000 BCE) in Gemini and so on. With this logic, there are no original signs. Either all the signs are the original ones or no signs are. So we are either all signs of the zodiac or none.

Right, this is precession. Not sure what you mean by "original" here. No one is claiming any one sign is more original than another. There are some constalltions that are original and some that are modern inventions but that is about it.

The problem is the tropical astrologers follow the signs and seasons and IGNORE these real dates and therefore ignore procession, which is a real thing.

Astrologers do not follow the seasons. Almanac makers do. The presession is not ignored. Hence the reason for sidereal and tropical camps.

Another problem with basing signs on the seasons is that seasons differ according to latitude. For example, the sunny season in Australia, South America, and South Africa is December, January, and February and the winter months are June, July and August. Thus a seasonal system becomes virtually meaningless

The seasonal system has nothing to do with astrology per se. For example. Egypt and Sumeria, where the signs originate, did not have a winter, as we know it. Note, for example, the symbol of Capricorn is half fish and half goat. This marked the time when the Nile would flood. But, in our time the Sun in Carpicorn represents the furthest southern declination of the Sun and is where we get the name for the Tropic of Capricorn. It doesn't matter whether you live in a place that is hot, snowy or a desert or a mountain-top or an island. The Sun is doing the same thing even if the weather differs.

So the constellations no longer coincide with the seasons in which they were noted in Ptolemy's time (150 C.E.). And today on March 21 the sun is in 9 degrees (roughly) in the constellation of Pisces. So, constellationally speaking, those born between March 21 and April 20 should no longer be Arians but Pisceans, and so on back around the zodiac.

Again, this is the tropical and sidereal versions of the same thing. Again, astrology is not using constellations. It is using signs which are based on or derived from constelations.

If we are to believe in tropical astrology, then we purposely ignore the change in constellation at the vernal equinox, since constellations are discounted. Therefore, different ages (such as the age of Aquarius) cannot occur in tropical since they all depend upon the constellation the sun is in on March 21.

No. The "Age of Aquarius" or Aries or Taurus, or what ever time you want, is based on the precession of the equinoxes. Nobody is ignoring anything. It's a matter of differing celestial measurements.

See what's wrong.

No, I don't.

This is the truth of the matter. There is no way around it.

The truth yes but, truth also requires understanding. Understanding the mechanics and context of each system is helpful.

Just addressing and refining problems with astrology in order to improve it as a whole and it's role in society

Astrology firstly requires understanding of the astronomy behind it and an ability to observe. Again, it is an Art, not a science.
 
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Because the constellations are of different sizes I think the 30 degree measurement is silly.
For that matter why do we use 360 degrees? Do you also think that is silly? Right, we should use some other number clearly. . .

Another problem with basing signs on the seasons is that seasons differ according to latitude. For example, the sunny season in Australia, South America, and South Africa is December, January, and February and the winter months are June, July and August. Thus a seasonal system becomes virtually meaningless
WRONG actually. A seasonal system goes by the equinoxes and solstices, which, regardless of where you live and what climate you endure, relates to where the earth is in its orbit around the sun. It has nothing to do with the perception of temperature where you are standing on the earth, or the degree of change. That's like saying if you live in Australia, the tropical zodiac should be inverted because summer is winter and winter is summer. That's just the tilt of the earth, has nothing to do with wear the earth is in relation to heavenly bodies, (stars sun etc). Where you are standing (equator vs. poles) has no effect on when the solstices are or how long a year is or how long a month is (phases of the moon are much like the phases of the earth around the sun)

Honestly, I don't know how strongly you feel about this, but this logic is flawed. I can't support your theory, because, imho if you were to go about this, you would also (and should) from your perspective, determine the weather for the individual on their birthday, in order to describe their personality. Everyone born from a hot climate therefore, is hot-tempered!

Also, do you know about solar winds, solar radiations etc ... all these things fluctuate and impact the whole earth regardless of where you are standing on it, but that doesn't mean a day isn't 24 hours anymore. Unless you personally want to make them 28 or 56 hours?

To me, its like saying the American measuring system is superior to the European metric, when the metric system is so much more practical and clear.
Meters, centimeters, kilometers, are all based on a system of 10s. . .doesn't matter that the original scales used might be somewhat archaic. The simplest design is the best.

Everyone hates the American system. 12 Inches in a Foot, 3 feet in a yard, 5280 feet in a mile? What?

Same thing in astrology. The energy being measured is the energy of consciousness, as we perceive and make meaning to things so distant and mysterious to us, we are actually talking about what goes on inside ourselves. Its very piscean actually, by reaching into the unexplainable darkness to inaccurately and desperately try to understand the world, we manifested the clearest picture of the brightest points in the farthest reaches of our own sub-conscious. Our sub-conscious is more powerful than pinpoints of light that takes thousands of years to reach us. Our sub-conscious and the archetypes therin, shape our reality over time, not the other way around. Thats why traditional astrology is superior. These archetypes can be measured as perfect cycle, a perfect psychological transformation, where each degree (regardless of its name or number) has history and a place. 360 is 360, unless you want to make it pi or some other number? It doesn't matter if it is 26 Aries or 250.768 Sasquatch its still the same

In fact i strongly believe that if you make one sign larger than the other, that's all people will focus on and complain about, and make it even worse for us in terms of our tendency to blow unimportant things out of proportion.

Time is still time, psychology is still psychology. The light from the stars, its power is influenced by our own psychic memes That's the power of consciousness, and consciousness is the last, and biggest frontier we have yet to explore. Its our own consciousness (and our massively potent memes) that drives astrology, not astrology driving our consciousness.

Just like the chinese i-ching has 60 trigrams. That's not going to change and the trigram system of evolution is very similar to that of astrology. I personally am wondering how I could relate the 60 trigrams better to the ecliptic myself, i dont think it should be 365, just to make it match the days of the year or something, if you do fine. .

I have no problem with a science that is made more digestible to everyone by having varying levels of complexity. However, sometimes those levels of complexity take away from the usability, utility and understanding of it. How many Americans know exactly how many feet are in a mile btw? (I do because I am a runner, but in reality, the number isn't even exactly 5280. . I think there some kind of decimal even... who cares? No one can even conceive how to relate atoms to reality, they so small, just as the stars are so far away its inconceivable but everyone knows how large an average person is and relates to reality from that simple framework)

The basic cycles of transformation that people are going through are not going to change by adding more complexity to the analysis of them nor is the power of the memes an archetypes going to go away by adding 13 signs. Everything that we need to know in the zodiac fits within the measurement we have. (5280 feet in a mile!?) The stars are not crying out that they are being ignored ... nor are people going to be unable to complete their karma and have adequate analysis thereof if there is an analysis of charts with 12 signs instead of 14. . .. The start and end are ALWAYS going to be the same. or infinate if you want to look at it. So basically you are arguing dividing the pie unequally and arbitrarily based on your superior system, when ALL measurements are arbitrary anyway. (except I think for one thing, which is a measuring system based on the actual size of atoms) WHO CARES?

I have some spelling typo errors. Apologies if I haven't fixed them all.
 
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The truth of the matter is that today the Vernal equinox is in the constellation Pisces. In Ptolemy's time (150 C.E.) it was in Aries, in ancient Mesopotamia (ca. 2000 BCE) in Taurus, before then (4000 BCE) in Gemini and so on. With this logic, there are no original signs. Either all the signs are the original ones or no signs are. So we are either all signs of the zodiac or none.
What you have stated is correct according to the available sources, Ptolemy was the first Greek astrologer who used the tropical zodiac, and this confirms the reformative direction of Tetrabiblos. In classical Greek astrology of 1st-2nd century AD the point of the vernal equinox was documented as being located at 8° of Aries.

Without any doubt, until the first centuries AD, the beginning of the zodiac inclusively was never identified with the point of the vernal equinox. :smile:

The problem is the tropical astrologers follow the signs and seasons and IGNORE these real dates and therefore ignore procession, which is a real thing.

Another problem with basing signs on the seasons is that seasons differ according to latitude. For example, the sunny season in Australia, South America, and South Africa is December, January, and February and the winter months are June, July and August. Thus a seasonal system becomes virtually meaningless

So the constellations no longer coincide with the seasons in which they were noted in Ptolemy's time (150 C.E.). And today on March 21 the sun is in 9 degrees (roughly) in the constellation of Pisces. So, constellationally speaking, those born between March 21 and April 20 should no longer be Arians but Pisceans, and so on back around the zodiac.

If we are to believe in tropical astrology, then we purposely ignore the change in constellation at the vernal equinox, since constellations are discounted. Therefore, different ages (such as the age of Aquarius) cannot occur in tropical since they all depend upon the constellation the sun is in on March 21.

See what's wrong.
This is the truth of the matter. There is no way around it.
Just addressing and refining problems with astrology in order to improve it as a whole and it's role in society

When Tropical Astrology states that a planet is 'changing signs' that planet is not entering a new constellation, but instead is merely symbolically 'changing signs'

As an example, the planet Saturn has just entered the constellation of Libra and is currently located at
Libra
But Tropical astrologers state that Saturn is currently located at
24º of the 'Sign' of Libra :smile:
 
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