MOON TRANSITS Are Not "Weak" They Depend On TOTALITY Chart TESTIMONIES - also Transiting LUNAR ECLIPSES

[JUPITERASC]

re "..one might attempt to demonstrate the hypothesis being asserted.."
LINK TO ALREADY REFERENCED BUT IGNORED DEMONSTRATION OF - When Moon transits have long term EFFECTS
CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED
at :

SO

Moon transits are often misunderstood as "weak,"
but their influence depends on the overall context of the birth chart. In astrology, no transit works in isolation; the Moon’s movements gain strength when aligned with other planetary aspects. The impact of lunar eclipses, in particular, can be significant, as they intensify emotional shifts and reveal hidden truths. ​

 

[FraterAC]

There is nothing in the video Maria Mateus | Mundane Forecasting with Eclipses as referenced in #781 and #785 (link duplicated) that has to do with Lunar transits, or lunations other than (mostly Solar) eclipses, for that matter.
This absolutely does NOT demonstrate the thesis.
There is nothing here at all that demonstrates the efficacy of Lunar transits. There is nothing here that demonstrates Lunar transits are anything other than weak and ineffectual.

 

[FraterAC]

Note to clarify:
Demonstration (an example or two) does not constitute proof.

 

[katydid]

OK, this thread seems to be stuck in a loop of circular arguments. Let's break it down to something that I think we can ALL agree with.

Some of you are saying Lunar transits are weak and inconsequential while others say they can be powerful and important. I think you are all correct, depending upon how you frame the discussion.

For example, in my own chart, I have Chiron/Mars/Moon conjunct in Cap, in my 8th. Every month the transiting Moon travels across that 8th house triple conjunction, and I rarely notice anything connected to that transit. It is not a strong transit, on its own.

However in spring of 2018, transiting Mars and Saturn came together in my 8th, conjunct my Chiron/Mars/Moon in Cap. And everything seemed OK, I thought I made it through that transit with few problems, as Mars was already a few degrees past the conjunction. [Tr Saturn was just past the exact conjunction of Chiron/Mars, and Tr Mars was 5 degrees past exact] ----then Tr Moon hit my Mars/Chiron in 8th----and my father had a serious heart attack, and never fully recovered.

The only transit that was exact was Tr Moon conjunct my 8th house Cap conjunction. The Tr Moon was the timer or the trigger, in my opinion. So in one way, it could be seen as a very strong transit. But on the other hand, if the Tr Mars/Saturn had not just been sitting on that 8th house conjunction for the previous week, the Moon by itself would not have had such an impact.

So both sides of your Lunar arguments are correct----The Moon's transit, on its own, is weak. However, if it hits another larger transit, it will probably be the trigger for important events or changes, or new phases.

 

[FraterAC]

the Moon by itself would not have had such an impact

You relate the effect of transits, but have you considered the progressions in effect at the time?
For such a significant experience, one would expect the transiting Moon would only time the effect of more powerful progressed aspects.
And yes, in the absence of any specific astrological examples, we are stuck in a vortex of circular unfounded assertions (not arguments).

 

[katydid]

You relate the effect of transits, but have you considered the progressions in effect at the time?
For such a significant experience, one would expect the transiting Moon would only time the effect of more powerful progressed aspects.
And yes, in the absence of any specific astrological examples, we are stuck in a vortex of circular unfounded assertions (not arguments).

I'm sure it was seen by progressions as well. But that doesn't negate the importance of the underlying transits. They are just layers of the same language of events.

The luminaries were what traditional astrologers called the two astrological "planets" which were the brightest and most important objects in the heavens. So I am not going to overlook their significance in one's natal chart and the transits. They are basic building blocks, in natal and horary.

And they are especially important when the lights are working in unison, as a New or Full Moon, or a Quarter or Crescent Moon,they can trigger certain areas of a chart. I think we have all experienced that---having a New Moon conjunct a natal planet or angle, for example.

The Lights are very important. So why wouldn't their transits to the natal be of importance as well? The Moon is so fast and constant we may overlook it's value at times. But I do believe it is the trigger for many large events. But not on its own---only when it 'points to' larger planetary configurations.

The most significant effect is in combination with outer planet transits. In theory it is possible to use inner planets transits to refine the timing of events of outer planet transits. Potentially that allows you to determine a smaller window of time when something could happen.

 

[FraterAC]

Gurdjieff said nothing happens in this "sublunary" world separate from the influence of the Moon.
Transits are the last link in the chain of -- causality, influence, synchronicity? Because there are no calculations involved, and no reasonable argument about where transiting planets are at any given time, they seem to have been accepted as the basic matter of forecasting and analysis; but this is a fairly recent development, mostly dating from the 1970s.
Certainly the Lights are very important in astrology. But even the (apparent) transits of the Sun are not always prominent in the timing of significant events. How much less the ephemeral Moon?
Note that in two years I can't recall even one chart presented correlating a Lunar transit with a major event. Not even ONE? Never? Let's get a real example and look at it.
[I appreciate Katydid's example, but we don't have a chart to analyze -- nor am I asking for it from her]
No one is saying the Moon has no influence. But even a Secondary progressed Moon correlates with a much more significant experience than any Lunar transit.

 

[JUPITERASC]

.
re: "..Gurdjieff said nothing happens in this "..sublunary.." world
separate from the influence of the Moon.."

GURDJIEFF WAS NOT AN ASTROLOGER
Gurdjieff was a spiritual teacher in the first half of the 20th century
who was influenced by Sufi, Zen, and Yoga mystics.
He taught that most people live their lives in
a state of hypnotic "..waking sleep.."
& that transcendence of this state required work

.

 

[JUPITERASC]

... that doesn't negate the importance of the underlying transits. They are just layers of the same language of events.
The luminaries were what traditional astrologers called the two astrological "planets" which were the brightest and most important objects in the heavens. So I am not going to overlook their significance in one's natal chart and the transits. They are basic building blocks, in natal and horary.

Clearly​

Transiting LUNAR ECLIPSES involve the Luminaries aka SUN & MOON
​

"..And they are especially important when the lights are working in unison,​

as a New or Full Moon, or a Quarter or Crescent Moon,they can trigger certain areas of a chart. I think we have all experienced that---having a New Moon conjunct a natal planet or angle, for example​

 

[katydid]

Gurdjieff said nothing happens in this "sublunary" world separate from the influence of the Moon.
Transits are the last link in the chain of -- causality, influence, synchronicity? Because there are no calculations involved, and no reasonable argument about where transiting planets are at any given time, they seem to have been accepted as the basic matter of forecasting and analysis; but this is a fairly recent development, mostly dating from the 1970s.
Certainly the Lights are very important in astrology. But even the (apparent) transits of the Sun are not always prominent in the timing of significant events. How much less the ephemeral Moon?
Note that in two years I can't recall even one chart presented correlating a Lunar transit with a major event. Not even ONE? Never? Let's get a real example and look at it.
[I appreciate Katydid's example, but we don't have a chart to analyze -- nor am I asking for it from her]
No one is saying the Moon has no influence. But even a Secondary progressed Moon correlates with a much more significant experience than any Lunar transit.

OK, I just went looking for an event chart transit w its someone's natal for comparison. And the first one I saw was Biden's chart with the transits for his announcement that he was dropping out of Presidential race.

The Moon was about 2 Aquarius and it squared his natal Moon @ 0 Taurus. Of course Tr Pluto was conjunct the Aquarius Moon ---but I think the transit Moon square was probably one of the triggers. Moon square Moon was th uncertainty he needed to call it that day ?

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...nt-biden-stay-in-the-race.150970/post-1293630

 

[JUPITERASC]

The Lights are very important. So why wouldn't their transits to the natal be of importance as well? The Moon is so fast and constant we may overlook it's value at times. But I do believe it is the trigger for many large events. But not on its own---only when it 'points to' larger planetary configurations.

i.e.​

that is

Obviously Dependent On TOTALITY Of Chart TESTIMONIES ​

The most significant effect is in combination with outer planet transits. In theory it is possible to use inner planets transits to refine the timing of events of outer planet transits. Potentially that allows you to determine a smaller window of time when something could happen.

TRADITIONALLY Outer planets are JUPITER & SATURN

.

 

[JUPITERASC]

OK, I just went looking for an event chart transit w its someone's natal for comparison. And the first one I saw was Biden's chart with the transits for his announcement that he was dropping out of Presidential race. The Moon was about 2 Aquarius and it squared his natal Moon @ 0 Taurus.

Interesting
Withdrawal of Joe Biden from 2024 United States presidential election.
Occurred on 21 July 2024

I think the transit Moon square was probably one of the triggers. Moon square Moon was uncertainty he needed to call it that day ?
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...nt-biden-stay-in-the-race.150970/post-1293630

Gone, but not forgotten. He endorsed his VP Kamala Harris but this is non-binding.
Mars and Saturn have been hanging out in their positions for a few days. Usually we look for a faster planet to be the trigger. I'm guessing the moon in early Aquarius square natal moon at 0 Taurus.

The following is my posted comment on that thread accompanied with Biden natal

MARS is TRANSITING HOUSE 6 OPP0SING NATAL MARS
SATURN is TRANSITING OPPOSING MC

Joe Biden QUITS Presidential Election ​

 

[FraterAC]

Biden's chart with the transits for his announcement that he was dropping out of Presidential race.

The Moon was about 2 Aquarius and it squared his natal Moon @ 0 Taurus

OK, fair enough. Let's look at this example, and see if we can figure out what planetary influences may have been in effect.
Shall we do it here, or do you (as moderator) want to move it elsewhere?
Note: wherever it is, the topic remains the efficacy of Lunar transits, NOT POLITICS. Let's keep the usual oversized fonts and yellow journalism links out of it.

For starts, I found a timestamp on his announcement for 10:46 am, EDT. That puts the transiting Moon at Aquarius 02:25, for an orb of 1:26 and separating of the square of his natal Moon; 2 hours and 23 minutes of clock time past exact.

 

[FraterAC]

"..Gurdjieff said nothing happens in this "..sublunary.." world
separate from the influence of the Moon.."

GURDJIEFF WAS NOT AN ASTROLOGER

So does that mean some things DO happen outside of the influence of the Moon?
So has this individual changed sides on the argument?

 

[conspiracy theorist]

OK, this thread seems to be stuck in a loop of circular arguments. Let's break it down to something that I think we can ALL agree with.

Some of you are saying Lunar transits are weak and inconsequential while others say they can be powerful and important. I think you are all correct, depending upon how you frame the discussion.

For example, in my own chart, I have Chiron/Mars/Moon conjunct in Cap, in my 8th. Every month the transiting Moon travels across that 8th house triple conjunction, and I rarely notice anything connected to that transit. It is not a strong transit, on its own.

However in spring of 2018, transiting Mars and Saturn came together in my 8th, conjunct my Chiron/Mars/Moon in Cap. And everything seemed OK, I thought I made it through that transit with few problems, as Mars was already a few degrees past the conjunction. [Tr Saturn was just past the exact conjunction of Chiron/Mars, and Tr Mars was 5 degrees past exact] ----then Tr Moon hit my Mars/Chiron in 8th----and my father had a serious heart attack, and never fully recovered.

The only transit that was exact was Tr Moon conjunct my 8th house Cap conjunction. The Tr Moon was the timer or the trigger, in my opinion. So in one way, it could be seen as a very strong transit. But on the other hand, if the Tr Mars/Saturn had not just been sitting on that 8th house conjunction for the previous week, the Moon by itself would not have had such an impact.

So both sides of your Lunar arguments are correct----The Moon's transit, on its own, is weak. However, if it hits another larger transit, it will probably be the trigger for important events or changes, or new phases.

Excellent very nice.... let's see JA's delineation

 

[conspiracy theorist]

So both sides of your Lunar arguments are correct----The Moon's transit, on its own, is weak. However, if it hits another larger transit, it will probably be the trigger for important events or changes, or new phases.

I appreciate the instructive example, and I have some in my life that borne out the Moon as trigger for more long-standing directions, but we would like for the OP to provide us with their own examples since he is an advocate for the efficacy of Lunar Transits. He particularly focuses on Moon transits, with no example charts or delineations of his own to demonstrate the apparent power that he has spent 40 pages emphasising.

 

[conspiracy theorist]

MARS is TRANSITING HOUSE 6 OPP0SING NATAL MARS
SATURN is TRANSITING OPPOSING MC

Hmm that's funny... I am not seeing the Moon transit in this comment. I suppose you forgot it.

 

[FraterAC]

MARS is TRANSITING HOUSE 6 OPP0SING NATAL MARS
SATURN is TRANSITING OPPOSING MC

Transiting Mars is actually 17:57 out of orb of opposition of radical Mars. Saturn is however 52' from opposition to the radical MC, if separating.
More significant as a day marker is the Quotidian MC (by Solar phase angle) in opposition to radical Mercury (within 10'). Mercury rules the 10th House from the 12th.
Transiting Pluto is square radical Moon (05').
Someone versed in Traditional elements would be expected to notice that the transiting Moon is conjunct antiscion Sun (01'), as of the timestamp I found for Biden's announcement.

But let's investigate progressions in effect to determine whether or not the transiting Moon had any impact as a trigger for them.
And let's remember to keep politics out of this, and discuss the astrology only.

The chart below shows the birthchart on the inner wheel and the transits for 7/21/2024 1046 EDT and the Quotidian angles, calculated using the natal Sun-MC phase angle, on the outer wheel.

 

[katydid]

Transiting Mars is actually 17:57 out of orb of opposition of radical Mars. Saturn is however 52' from opposition to the radical MC, if separating.
More significant as a day marker is the Quotidian MC (by Solar phase angle) in opposition to radical Mercury (within 10'). Mercury rules the 10th House from the 12th.
Transiting Pluto is square radical Moon (05').
Someone versed in Traditional elements would be expected to notice that the transiting Moon is conjunct antiscion Sun (01'), as of the timestamp I found for Biden's announcement.

But let's investigate progressions in effect to determine whether or not the transiting Moon had any impact as a trigger for them.
And let's remember to keep politics out of this, and discuss the astrology only.

The chart below shows the birthchart on the inner wheel and the transits for 7/21/2024 1046 EDT and the Quotidian angles, calculated using the natal Sun-MC phase angle, on the outer wheel.
View attachment 115649

I am trying to understand what the question of the progressions has to do about deciding if the Moon's transit is a trigger or not. The Moon either is a timing tool or it is not. But I don't see how looking at progressions affects that question. I have not doubts there will be prominent progressions indicating this internal struggle. I thought the question we had was whether or not there were Lunar transits denoting it?

In this case , of Biden's surprise announcement to withdraw, The Moon was just 2 hours past the exact square between transit Moon and his natal Moon. I'm sure it took awhile for them to set ups the actual announcement. I think that during the most intense portion of that transit, the several hours prior to exact, he was probably actively being browbeaten by his political colleagues, insisting he make that decision to withdraw.
IMO.

 

[FraterAC]

I am trying to understand what the question of the progressions has to do about deciding if the Moon's transit is a trigger or not.

If the Moon's transit does not act in connection with appropriate progressions, then we have a fail in this case of the transiting Moon correlating with this significant incident.
There is no connection between the transiting Moon and anything having to do with Biden's announcement of his decision to drop out of the race. The square to his natal Moon in the 5th house, ruling his 8th, has no connection to what must be considered a very significant moment in his career and public life (10th house). Neither does it have anything to do with his 9th house (politics) or 1st house (expression, putting himself forward, asserting himself).
So if the Lunar transit can't be linked to some progression that does have to do with this significant career decision (which effectively ended Biden's public life) then that transit has failed to demonstrate the assertion.