Need help here: child molester

[Phil]

This is the horoscope of a man who sexually abused his step-daughter from the age of 6 till the age of 16 when she went away from home.

What baffles me here, is that I would have expected a negative influence from pluto, but do not really see any signs pointing towards sexual abuse.
Only thing I found is a pretty exact venus quintile pluto aspect. Quintiles show in which area of life one is strong driven/obsessed. Pluto is also obsession, so I wonder if this could be an indicator... Never used quintiles before...
Anybody see something indicating sexual abuse? Thanks

 

[Nexus7]

Perhaps we are wrong always to assume a strong Pluto presence in cases such as these.

What I do see in this chart is a potentially wonderful capacity for deception, of self and/or of others, and this could be over this sense of self and in sexual matters - he is not what he seems. Look at those squares from his Sun and Mercury to Neptune!

The powerful Taurus emphasis may indicate a need to relate to people who may be more easily controlled than an adult who may know his or her own mind, though I am sure that most people with strong Taurean qualities manage not to take the route this individual seems to have done

The Venus on his IC may telkl a tale too. The IC is supposed to be about roots, so maybe there was a fixation at very young females because of something unresolved then? - and the SNode is on this IC too. I know that this is pure speculation, of course.

Either way, if I saw a chart like this blind, I would want to know how wellthe individual concerned may have manifested, or resoved, those Neptune squares.

 

[Lithuel]

I don't know much about fixed stars, but I get the feeling that they may be telling a story here. I'll have to look it up later, I've got to go run some errands...

 

[Pan]

With Moon/Venus square Neptune, tend to be a slef-delussion about love and life vision, too fantasy, is belief and life vision distorted. Moon square Venus may indecated mental illness.

 

[Pan]

I'm smattering here also, but the Moon is conjunct the ruler of his fifth house Venus,
and this coupled with the Moon's square to neptune, seems suspect...

Moon conjunct Venus (his 5th house ruler) on IC - IC indecated past life in Karmic astrology.

 

[Phil]

The man is dead, he was the stepfather of a person close to me. He never amounted to much, he was a minor bank employee.

 

[Mark]

Whenever I hear about abuse within a family, the first thing that pops into my head is the sign Cancer. It has all the makings of a terribly abusive parent if it is not directed properly. Pluto in Cancer is the first red flag to my eyes. If I didn't know what I was looking for, I would say that this placement would cause crazy, passive-aggressive turmoil in family relationships. Also, I don't normally look for this, but I notice that Cancer is intercepted in this chart. I would wager this interception indicates something important as well.

After that I see Venus, Chiron, and the IC in Aries. If you've been an astrologer for any reasonable length of time, that one should explain itself. I would expect this to indicate even more passive-aggressive tendencies (Aries, Chiron) and I would expect these tendencies to manifest strongly in relation to love and sex (Venus), but still be hidden (IC).

After that I see Jupiter and Saturn in Virgo. This gives me the sense of an intellectual giant, crushed under his own weight. One might also say, "a scrambled egg head." This is further supported by the fact that Mercury looks to be combust in this chart (~4° 14' away from the Sun).

It may be a bit of a stretch, but his South node, as Nexus7 mentioned, is also in Aries and his North node is in Libra. By some interpretations, this would say that he would gain in spiritual development by moving away from this Aries cluster and moving toward his Libran North node, conjunct MC. If he could actually become the man that he shows to the world, he'll be alright. It seems, however, that this particular individual went the opposite way and fell into very bad habits, perhaps carried over from previous incarnations.

I do find some definite red flags in this chart, but I want to stress that some other hypothetical baby, born at the same time near the same place, would probably not have chosen the same path this man did. The qualities that this man acted upon to become who he is are unique to him, even if the planets and stars have denoted/given particular conditions. In short, it was still a choice on his part. The planets and stars didn't make him do it... repeatedly for a decade. By the way, Lithuel was probably right in saying that the stars are telling just as much of this story as the planets. An analysis of "fixed" stars in this chart should reveal more information.

 

[rahu]

hi phil,
with sexual abuse,one always looks to hard aspects between pluto,chiron and saturn , and their midpoints.quintile and biquintiles are also very common.then one looks for the aspects between conscious planets ,including consideration of the midpoints.

here you are absolutely on the right track.the quintile of venus to pluto definitely is a factor.but you missed the clincher, which is venus is biquintile to saturn also with a corresponding quintile of pluto to saturn.

chiron is square to pluto.another nail.
as well as the pluto/saturn midpoint conjunct neptune and square to mercury.the inclusion of neptune shows that alcohol was an intergral part of the incestual trap .and the jupiter/neptune midpoint is square to the pluto/chiron square's midpoint.

the mars/pluto midpoint is square to saturn.again showing the sexual/incestual actions.

the sun/chiron midpoint is conjunct the moon/venus midpoint.
again emphacizing the incestual orientation of his personality.
and along with the venus/jupiter midpoint square to the saturn/chiron midpoint, his perverted incestual "love" is quite evident.

you might also add nessus, as this symbol also shows up with hard aspects in sexual abuse charts.

rahu

 

[Nexus7]

Radu
Those midpoints certainly help explain a whole lot more........

 

[Phil]

Thanks rahu for the heads up on the midpoints. Used to work with them, but usually just go for major aspects.

In this case, looking at the horoscope with a simplified approach, apparently does not show the perverseness.

And, BobZemco, of course, I did not want to slander anyone. Am just looking for pluto connections and am thinking out loud.

Quintile is 72 degrees, 1/5 of zodiac. Never used it, as it is a minor aspect.

I used to use midpoints, but the number of parameters just keeps increasing.

I wanted to find something with major aspects, which I couldn't...

 

[rahu]

yes nexus 7
midpoints as described always show the abusive patterns.
i have worked with recovering alcoholic and drug addict thru 12 step programs for a couple of decades and found many ofthese indivuduals also had had sexual abusive histories.

phil
just a thought about excluding anything accept "major aspects".

as astrologers we all have noticed the correlation between transitting aspects and behavior/circumstances.but what percentage of time does one find positive correlationships? 10%? 20% 1 % ?

hasn't ever struck you that it seems strange that there are not more logical correlations.
if the stars affect us only 10% of the time, what is happening the other 90%.maybe we are missing something because we have a prejudice about only" major "aspects having value. if one doesn't explore other mathematic symbolism, one will never fill in the missing correlations.

rahu

 

[Phil]

True rahu. Sometime back I had worked with midpoints, after having read Robert Hand's book "Horoscope Symbols" which has an introduction to midpoints.

Interesting to hear first hand experience from someone who has worked with midpoints and has seen these as indicators of sexual abuse. Thanks.

 

[Nexus7]

midpoints as described always show the abusive patterns.
i have worked with recovering alcoholic and drug addict thru 12 step programs for a couple of decades and found many ofthese indivuduals also had had sexual abusive histories.

I have an old friend in stage 3 alcoholism. I have often wondered what might fuel it. In her chart I saw a midpoint picture involving Mars, Pluto and Moon.

 

[astrologer50]

With Moon/Venus square Neptune, tend to be a slef-delussion about love and life vision, too fantasy, is belief and life vision distorted. Moon square Venus may indecated mental illness.

I have never heard this connection, do you have any data, links or books supporting this?

I feel the moon conj neptune like everyone else plays a major part here.
venus square moon
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24933&highlight=venus+square+moon

Venus retrograde, can't show emotions outwardly
Mars singleton, apex for T Square from 6th (Equal house)
lack of air element - sweeping statements. Libra MC charm smooth talking, Saggi Asc jovial, expansive independent.....
Mars square uranus = bad temper

Neptune in 8th = confused issues around sex and parameters. confusions, delusions, distortions connected to sun,moon mercury show problems relatiang to parents (sun,moon) and poss lies in communications (mercury) obviously not a man to be trusted

Lastly, Plut square chiron as has been mentioned. That stellium in taurus would be in 5th house (Equal house) and this to me shows where his main focus of attention was *children* and 5th house matters.

 

[Pan]

I have never heard this connection, do you have any data, links or books supporting this?

Oh, sorry, I was wrong writthing, I mean Moon square Neptune tend to have a mental sick (schizophrenia).

 

[Pan]

A found a like say about sextual indicators. http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...8&hl=th&ct=clnk&gl=th&source=www.google.co.th

 

[Pan]

Signs of mental illness by Mitchell E.Gibson M.D.,
http://books.google.co.th/books?id=kH1FpdypkhIC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=Moon+square+Neptune+schizophrenia+mental+illness&source=bl&ots=SYPaMSm6S-&sig=0yAMegyWNYAWmAkjcJGn27NOI2Y&hl=th&ei=PiW0TdoviPOtB8_KpMgN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Moon%20square%20Neptune%20schizophrenia%20mental%20illness&f=false

 

[R4VEN]

Moon square Neptune tend to have a mental sick (schizophrenia).

Not me - sorry to blow that one apart! I may be sensitive, but schizophrenic I'm not.

Pluto in Cancer is the first red flag to my eyes.

The generation born between May 1914 and June 1939 all had Pluto in Cancer. That's one heck of a bunch of people to be suspicious about.

 

[Pan]

Not me - sorry to blow that one apart! I may be sensitive, but schizophrenic I'm not.

Sorry, I didn't mean that, it's just a one of indicator I read from a book I mention before, as we know we need to look into the whole picture of the chart..But yes, a friend of mine with this aspect, is very sensitive and insecure.

 

[Mark]

R4VEN: True, there are 26 or so years in that Plutonic generation, but haven't you noticed the streaks of similarity that run through that generation of people, especially as familial dysfunction? Also, in this particular chart, Cancer and Capricorn are intercepted. That interception is unique to the individual, not the Plutonic generation. Therefore, the Pluto in Cancer tendencies manifested differently in this one man than they did in everyone else. Thus, not everyone with Pluto in Cancer should be suspected of child molestation. They also should not be expected to be warm, loving, supportive parents when the kids get annoying.