Rectification Tips - Verifying Ascendant/Descendant/MC/IC angles

[JUPITERASC]

As a result of questions on a thread at this link http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51377 and because IMO it is common knowledge amongst astrologers that checking a natal chart for correlations with transits is a basic requirement for all charts because the basic requirement is that any natal chart is a 'working chart', this is a thread for anyone interested in very basic chart rectification.

BASIC STEPS
List major life events such as academic rewards, degree, diplomas, exams passed, operations, hospital admissions of any kind, accidents, relocation to a new home, relocation abroad, marriages, divorces, births, deaths, starting first job, leaving old job, starting new job, anything important.

When looking back at transits for major events in life, as well as noting all aspects from transiting planets to the angles, remember to note in particular aspects from all the rulers of the ASC/MC/IC/DESC to other planets as well as to the angles themselves

If you focus on the seven visible planets to begin with, then you'll find that you have more than enough aspects to cope with - especially if you have many exact dates of events to check!

Btw exclude dates that are "give or take a couple of weeks" as being totally too inaccurate!

Specific dates for major events means the actual exact day as well as the precise time of the occurrence

- e.g. precise date AND time of giving birth... precise date and time of when your wife/partner/girlfriend gave birth to your child... precise date and time of being wheeled into the operating theater to have appendix removed... precise date and time of any accidents involving broken bones... precise date and time of first day at work... precise date and time of graduation award... precise date and time of car crashes... precise date and time of relocating to new home... precise date of when decree nisi granted... precise date of any relocation that resulted... precise date and time on official letter from hospital/medics giving diagnosis.... and/or precise date and time of appointment with doc/medic who delivered the news... precise date and time of graduation day...

(a) Health involves the physical body, hence examine transits to the ascendant, transits to the ascendant ruler and transits by the ascendant ruler to the angles/other planets on the specific day of any health issues

(b) divorce AND marriage BOTH involve transits to the Descendant, transits to the descendant ruler, and transits by the descendant ruler to the angles/other planets on the specific day of the decree nisi

(c) divorce AND marriage BOTH involve MC as well. So examine transits to MC and to MC ruler, as well as transits by MC ruler to any of the angles by conjunction, trine, square and/or opposition

Good idea to focus on the following basics when analyzing your data relating to specific dates and times of events:

(a) any planets on the angles, i.e. any planet conjunct, trine, square or opposing any angle.

(b) any ruler of any one of the four angles on any one of the angles. i.e. any ruling planet of any one of the four angles that is conjunct, trine, square or opposing any angle

No harm in learning basic rectification, don't be put off by thinking it is 'too difficult/complicated/puzzling' - it is an interesting and rewarding exercise.

Have fun! What you are sleuthing for are :

(a) transiting planets close to or at the degree of your ascendant/descendant for the given time of birth

(b) transiting planets close to or at the degree of your MC/IC for the given time of birth

IMO you may find it helpful to - as you continue to focus on the seven visible planets and the degrees they occupy on the specific dates and times you have chosen - to note in particular, IF on the same day a planet aspects by conjunction, opposition, square, sextile, trine:

(1) the approximate degree you currently have for the Ascendant

while another planet on the same day aspects by conjunction, opposition, square, sextile, trine:

(2) the approximate degree you currently have for the MC

It is common knowledge that traditional ancient astrology planet domiciles for each ascendant are as follows:

Aries Ascendant = Mars
Taurus Ascendant = Venus
Gemini Ascendant = Mercury
Cancer Ascendant = Moon
Leo Ascendant = Sun
Virgo Ascendant = Mercury
Libra Ascendant = Venus
Scorpio Ascendant = Mars
Sagittarius Ascendant = Jupiter
Capricorn Ascendant = Saturn
Aquarius Ascendant = Saturn
Pisces Ascendant = Jupiter
modern outers were simply not visible to ancient astrologers

who nevertheless successfully rectified charts

Rectification is an ancient technique at least two thousand years old
before modern outers could be observed with the aid of powerful telescopes.
An example of an ancient/traditional rectification technique
is the “...Animodar...” method of rectification which is explained at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/animodar.html

Animodar is just one rectification technique of which there are many.
These are just the basics..
Good idea to assess/experiment with each method before drawing any firm conclusions.
Each astrologer has their own ideas as to which method is preferable

and examine/experiment with all methods to find the method you prefer


.

 

[Monk]

Hi Jupiterasc,

Your post is excellent, no way would i attack it, but i would move sideways into another area....i have no idea why link below will not work on this forum involving the much loved astro.com for birthcharts, i'm not the best with computers, perhaps you can get passed the final dot with link below that for myself does not register for debate in creating link, moderators and Jupiterasc please try this link below, can you get it to work, if so, show what i'm doing wrong....we can move forward after this:- it involves Helena P Blavatsky.....

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blavatsky,_Helena_P.

Note final dot doesn't register

Therefore i show this by other means, please scroll down to "SOURCE NOTES" on link below.....please tell me how we got to time of birth being at 02:17am....i find it deeply suspicious....enlighten me???

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6685&mode=view

Obviously i may have a lot to debate over this.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Therefore i show this by other means, please scroll down to "SOURCE NOTES" on link below.....please tell me how we got to time of birth being at 02:17am....i find it deeply suspicious....enlighten me???
http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6685&mode=view
Obviously i may have a lot to debate over this.

02:17 am is a rather precise time Monk, given that the source notes say that the lady herself gave her birth time as "forty minutes before sunrise"

That is intriguing

 

[Monk]

So here we have it, please note i agree Jupiterasc your post is excellent, in the past you may have wondered about me, obviously i make everyone wonder...in time i give astonishing stuff...02:17am is wrong, i have no idea of birth time, please note some people try to make a connection with Sirius with source notes!!!!!!!

I'm the only person saying that Mystery cults or Secret Societies value Alnilam as much as Sirius, obviously only with Mystics, our beloved birth chart icon may be infiltrated, they have influenced "Rectification", honest astrologers are not involved in secret societies....so why 02:17am with Blavatsky....is this artificial "Avatar"?......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar

Please note i think that "astro.com" is accurate over most birth times...but you have to admit Blavatsky is special, and could be open to infiltration...where does 02:17am come from?????

Please note below...now we see it, taken from Brady, link below:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6686&mode=view

Please note Jupiterasc...i love your rectification thread, but Birth time must be accurate to go forward....i'm deeply suspicious of infiltration with Blavatsky, but love your honesty!!!!

You may think i'm against you sometimes, but you have to wait to see results...as always you are my buddy, but sometimes i do drink too much, can any one blame me?

 

[byjove]

Hi Jupiter. Thank you for posting this info!

I'm using a hospital-give time but I note much family disagreement.

OK I have found one or two events have the aspects listed above and other major events have none of them, but I am certain of the days. Any tips?

I'm using; date of only major house move, date of winning academic awards, date of moving abroad for study.

What I could consider using; I know my graduate date due later this year and I had a major accident when about 4 years old but escaped mostly unharmed. That one is a last resort but could prove useful later.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Hi Jupiter. Thank you for posting this info!

I'm using a hospital-give time but I note much family disagreement.

OK I have found one or two events have the aspects listed above and other major events have none of them, but I am certain of the days. Any tips?

I'm using; date of only major house move, date of winning academic awards, date of moving abroad for study.

What I could consider using; I know my graduate date due later this year and I had a major accident when about 4 years old but escaped mostly unharmed. That one is a last resort but could prove useful later.

Marriages are great for rectification purposes byjove IF you have exact dates and times noted.

For those not married and/or not interested in marriage, then the exact dates and times of meeting significant others aka long term partners aka girl friends and/or boyfriends, are very useful

Use Graduation Day time for the commencement of the awards ceremony (after the ceremony you can use the exact time you stepped onto the stage and received your award)

Major accident escaping relatively unscathed when aged 4 years old is an excellent one to use - any exact timing of it? Exact timing gives the transiting angles and exact Moon position. Moon travels fastest of the seven visible planets

 

[Monk]

If anything is central we must note local time against Greenwich mean time, moderators please examine!

Many moderators come from America, please note this isn't a factor,....i will not attack American Moderators, religion and concept,this will be a double edged sword!

You have no idea yet of concepts but apply this is as a factor, yes i get pissed, but apply it, it will register with any astrology programme, Moderators be aware of this!

The factor here noted is Prime Meridian, adopted by many but not all countries by 1884 in Washington D.C., this has nothing to do with local time that goes back through history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meridian_Conference

Now apply before this date throughout America....there is only now one location that can be applied before Meridian Conference in America, this is Greenwich, UK, you have no idea yet where this will lead.....try it several years before 1884 in America, look to meridian, it will always be local, this is easy to see, it will note everything in hours minutes and seconds...after in America it relates to hours... thus today you need to be in the right location in regards to time zones to actually be aware of what i'm saying, actually that will be honest as we go forward....don't try to go forward yet, however Moderators will note i show little bits, that must be built up!

Not all adopted this factor in 1884, indeed by some midnight has never been adopted, tell me that Jews have ever adopted midnight.....please note moderators, i'm not attacking.....the concept is never ending!

At least for now look at dates before 1884 in America, you will note that everything is rounded off to the hour after date, before will show hours, minutes and seconds.....please note this before we go further!

 

[Zaphod]

Thanks for the excellent post, Jup. I've been using these basic rules for many years and also find rectification a fascinating pursuit. One thing that I think you mentioned in another thread is that, for post-WW II births, some hospitals reverted from War Time to Standard Time and didn't adopt Summer Time (DST) right away. This would be worth checking when using a birth certificate's stated time.

My most recent case study was a somewhat simple one that unfortunately culminated with the 89-year-old individual's death before I got too far into the details. But I guess you could say that's the ultimate rectification data point. His chart had been rectified a long time ago by another astrologer who knew him well, which moved the ascendant from Sagittarius to Capricorn, but the exact degree wasn't available. Since his declining health had been reaching a critical stage, I got playing around with the transits of Pluto and Uranus, and advanced the unrectified birth time about an hour to put transiting Pluto closely conjunct the natal ascendant. A couple of weeks later, using the time of death, I tweaked the birth time by five more minutes to put Pluto exactly on the ascending degree, and noted that transiting Sun was exactly on the descendant and both were exactly square transiting Uranus; all these contacts were within a few minutes of arc, and all three completed a Cardinal Grand Cross with natal Mars in Libra, traditional ruler of the Scorpio MC. Interestingly, transiting Neptune (which had recently moved into the 3rd House Pisces intercept) and Sun completed a Water Grand Trine with natal Sun, which was situated within a degree of the natal MC. This looked to me like kind of a "gateway" chart signifying the gentleman's transformation to the next phase on his spiritual path, to which he went peacefully without obvious pain. I need to flesh out this broad-brush overview with a deeper analysis (I've been working with his astrologer wife on it), but it looks like a good framework to start from. It was all done in Placidus and I want to experiment with other house systems.

By the way, I'll ask a question I never got an answer to previously. Do you (or does anyone) have experience with Carole Tebbs book on rectification? I have the old AFA book by Schwickert, but it's wretchedly printed and very hard to figure out.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Thanks for the excellent post, Jup. I've been using these basic rules for many years and also find rectification a fascinating pursuit. One thing that I think you mentioned in another thread is that, for post-WW II births, some hospitals reverted from War Time to Standard Time and didn't adopt Summer Time (DST) right away. This would be worth checking when using a birth certificate's stated time

fwiw IMO, Rectification is the basic first step required in order to verify that the chart one is reading IS the chart of the native in question

My most recent case study was a somewhat simple one that unfortunately culminated with the 89-year-old individual's death before I got too far into the details. But I guess you could say that's the ultimate rectification data point. His chart had been rectified a long time ago by another astrologer who knew him well, which moved the ascendant from Sagittarius to Capricorn, but the exact degree wasn't available. Since his declining health had been reaching a critical stage, I got playing around with the transits of Pluto and Uranus, and advanced the unrectified birth time about an hour to put transiting Pluto closely conjunct the natal ascendant. A couple of weeks later, using the time of death, I tweaked the birth time by five more minutes to put Pluto exactly on the ascending degree, and noted that transiting Sun was exactly on the descendant and both were exactly square transiting Uranus; all these contacts were within a few minutes of arc, and all three completed a Cardinal Grand Cross with natal Mars in Libra, traditional ruler of the Scorpio MC. Interestingly, transiting Neptune (which had recently moved into the 3rd House Pisces intercept) and Sun completed a Water Grand Trine with natal Sun, which was situated within a degree of the natal MC. This looked to me like kind of a "gateway" chart signifying the gentleman's transformation to the next phase on his spiritual path, to which he went peacefully without obvious pain. I need to flesh out this broad-brush overview with a deeper analysis (I've been working with his astrologer wife on it), but it looks like a good framework to start from. It was all done in Placidus and I want to experiment with other house systems

fwiw IMO Zaphod, chart rectification methods of ancient/traditional astrology provide excellent results without the use of the relatively recently discovered outer planets whose influences on the natal chart remain debatable - however that is merely my opinion and obviously there are astrologers who like to use the outer planets – obviously there are as many methods in astrology as there are astrologers and it is up to the individual astrologer to decide for themselves.

By the way, I'll ask a question I never got an answer to previously. Do you (or does anyone) have experience with Carole Tebbs book on rectification? I have the old AFA book by Schwickert, but it's wretchedly printed and very hard to figure out.

I have a very good copy of Schwickert's book
here's a link to Carol Tebbs being interviewed by Jacqui Menkes on traditional blog talk radio in which she states that rectification is a lot of work and gives much basic and very useful information.

and here's a link to Jacqui Menkes own website http://www.jacquimenkes.com/jacquimenkes.com_page2.html

100 WORD EXTRACT FROM PROGRAM NOTE

"Rounding-off birth times to nearest quarter hour can mean that angles/cusps of the chart may be off by 4[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]º[/FONT] or more which leads to an entirely different chart interpretation.

Birth times are now mostly recorded to the minute in most states and countries BUT the variation among clocks running fast or slow still provides wide variation causing similar interpretive inaccuracies.

Astrological forecasting based upon birth chart can therefore be off by as much as 4-5 years, which is not acceptable. Ms Tebbs is a frequent guest speaker at astrology conferences and is on the faculty of Kepler College"

 

[byjove]

JupiterASC - I have only about 3/4 major life events as listed above that I can use... I haven't celebrated enough birthdays I'm afraid. I have gone back on the major events and found a planet (or two) on either the MC or AC in some situations, and none in others. Any tips? Should I just wait for some more events to happen? While studying this, my mother contacted me and asked what had me so studious, I explained and she decided to tell me the hospital time is wrong and I was born about 6 hours later. (I so wanted to throw something out the window I'm the youngest of 4 and her memory has been criticised. My aunt drove my mother to the hospital and said it was about 2.5 hours after the hospital time. That's a window of time I can work with, rectification is more possible).

Zaphod - thanks for that useful information. I'll check out the link and see what I can find to help me in my efforts. I was just thinking that I needed to find astrologers who've employed these efforts already who could offer good advice, just when I read your post!

Monk - forgive me, but I'm a bit confused about what you're saying. Do you mean that some software/websites/etc may be calculating using inaccurate data? Are there are resources you would trust above others? I was born on GMT, but one hour ahead for summer time. Do the possible inaccuracies even apply to me?

 

[JUPITERASC]

JupiterASC - I have only about 3/4 major life events as listed above that I can use... I haven't celebrated enough birthdays I'm afraid. I have gone back on the major events and found a planet (or two) on either the MC or AC in some situations, and none in others. Any tips? Should I just wait for some more events to happen? While studying this, my mother contacted me and asked what had me so studious, I explained and she decided to tell me the hospital time is wrong and I was born about 6 hours later

Ask your mother some more questions byjove to home in on her reasons for saying that - perhaps she has good reason to say this - and of course she may also be mistaken... intriguing

(I so wanted to throw something out the window I'm the youngest of 4 and her memory has been criticised. My aunt drove my mother to the hospital and said it was about 2.5 hours after the hospital time. That's a window of time I can work with, rectification is more possible)

So both your aunt and your mother agree that it was AFTER the time given by the hospital... at least there is consensus there! As well as that, it is not unusual for clerical errors aka human errors to occur in hospitals and elsewhere

Zaphod - thanks for that useful information. I'll check out the link and see what I can find to help me in my efforts. I was just thinking that I needed to find astrologers who've employed these efforts already who could offer good advice, just when I read your post!

Monk - forgive me, but I'm a bit confused about what you're saying. Do you mean that some software/websites/etc may be calculating using inaccurate data? Are there are resources you would trust above others? I was born on GMT, but one hour ahead for summer time. Do the possible inaccuracies even apply to me?

Monk shall have an answer for you byjove however, I just wanted to say that astrology software IS far from perfect and is prone to error!

 

[Zaphod]

fwiw IMO, Rectification is the basic first step required in order to verify that the chart one is reading IS the chart of the native in question

Agreed, in principle. The only demurral I would offer is for situations in which the astrologer is present at the moment of birth, as I was for my two kids (the nurse assisting the obstetrician once said to me "What are you looking up there for," (pointing at the clock) "the action is down here!" ) (I won't even get into the debate about whether the "moment of birth" is the first breath, the instant of conception or somewhere during the gestation period ["point of ensoulment?"]) And, unless there were severe post-natal medical complications or the father or mother dropped dead, with a newborn you won't have much in the way of life events to work with.

fwiw IMO Zaphod, chart rectification methods of ancient/traditional astrology provide excellent results without the use of the relatively recently discovered outer planets whose influences on the natal chart remain debatable - however that is merely my opinion and obviously there are astrologers who like to use the outer planets – obviously there are as many methods in astrology as there are astrologers and it is up to the individual astrologer to decide for themselves.

I'm a pragmatist who uses whatever fits the occasion. In this case I wasn't prepared to throw out the work of the other astrologer (now departed), whose skill I respected greatly, so I stayed with the Capricorn ascendant. The first thing that grabbed me - at least provisionally - related to something as significant as terminal illness (in this case, multiple myloma) was the presence of Pluto in Capricorn, possibly in the vicinity of the Ascendant. While I won't accord the outer planets primary sign rulership, I'm amenable to considering them elaborations or "shadings" (octaves?) of the traditional rulers they're paired with (at least as a working hypothesis). The subtle archetypal notation that has grown up around them just seems too good to reject out of hand. However, I do agree that the effort to force-fit them into the model is awkward at best (especially the Uranus/Saturn connection; at least Neptune/Jupiter and Pluto/Mars seem to have a bit of common ground).

 

[Monk]

I'm sorry i wasn't clear on my last thread section, i'm very ill, JupiterAsc knows if i'm not clear, i will give clarity on next thread section.

What i'm showing below now will only work for Northern Hemisphere, since early in 20th Century December has been prone to Summer Time in Southern Hemisphere.

JupiterAsc will be glad at least here i'm not talking about parans or projected with fixed stars, your astrology programme is accurate with planets within our solar system, so i wish to look at local time, that was apparent within our study for many centuries, time and M.C. and I.C. = Longitude!

Today we value only Greenwich UK mean time, hell have we messed with time that effects M.C. and I.C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_longitude

However please look below about LOCAL TIME:-

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/bristol-time.htm

How we denote a Jupiter M.C. today is very different to the past, lets look at a rare alignment when we used local time, actually anywhere if you apply 1st January 1753 at midnight will show up with a Jupiter M.C. because we used local time!

On the prime Meridian, Jupiter didn't return till midnight 1st Jan 2002, but now it will not show every where....how longitude works after we have messed with time is a factor with this excellent post.

I will show there are area's that local time that we measured for centuries will still apply, from 00:00 longitude from Greenwich, UK, plus multiples of every 15 degrees give or take a degree, it will work in New York or Cairo with approx. multiples....Why? Perhaps JupiterAsc can explain, he knows that four minutes of time is equal to one degree orb!

So look at Jupiter Conjunct M.C. on 1st January 1753, and note it will register anywhere!

Then look at Jupiter Conjunct M.C. at Greenwich UK at midnight on 1st January 2002....this will not show up everywhere in our era, Southern Hemesphere now uses Summer Time...so now only look at locations that are in Northern Hemisphere, and are approx. every 15 degrees of Longitude from Greenwich Mean Time, thus New York and Cairo as an example...i can explain this, but i'm hoping that JupiterAsc will work it out...start with one degree is equal to four minutes of time.. i love my puzzles Ha Ha!

 

[Monk]

Thus my buddy JupiterAsc,

This is very funny, Try a Birth chart for John Doe on 1st January 1753 at midnight, anywhere you like, try it anywhere, you will love my symbolism about John Doe!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Doe

So now try it after Greenwich Meridian was put in place, Jupiter returned to the M.C. at midnight on 1st January 2002....it gets difficult to apply now...doesn't it? So how does every 15 degree multiples/Longitude apply give or take a degree in New York or Cairo, you have the answer within you JupiterAsc!!!

If we are going to get angles true with Longitude, then we must examine local time!

 

[Monk]

So who would be interested with Jupiter aligned to M.C, at midnight on New Years Day 1753 if we were looking for electional astrology?

Please note in England before date New Year was "Ladies Day" 25th of March...America was a colony at this time, thus subject to this!

In 1752 11 days were taken out of the calendar to correspond with the Gregorian Calendar, by London/Greenwich, UK!

It will be interesting only to astronomers to look at parans/astronomy that is accurate to date.....please note astrologers your programme will not show Gregorian Reform Calendar as it applies to differing countries, but only is applied to 1582, you must adjust yourself!

Please scroll down link to Calendar Reform in UK, i'm not talking about Sirius yet...am i?, Only Jupiter on M.C. If you take out 11 days then after 1752, the New Year is subject to Jupiter on M.C. at midnight on 1753...very funny!

Link below, follow through:-

http://www.wisdomportal.com/Dates/1752Jupiter.html

 

[Monk]

We now use time zones, all time is rounded off, thus completely different to 1752, i wonder about interpretation with angles?

Sirius still brings in the New Year on the Prime Meridian, but you have to now be in the right location for this to apply, with local time in the past it would register everywhere....try any location if you have accurate parans around approx. 1830 at midnight at New Year.

Obviously this doesn't take us back to 1582 in Rome, but to gain longevity against precession inaccurate projected measure was used first, after a couple of centuries, the accurate paran took over, i can explain all this, and isn't Synchronicity!

Graph below on link showing Greenwich, UK at midnight on 1st January 2013 Sirius Culminating....this will work for New York or Cairo...every 15 degrees of Longitude, give or take a degree...thats how time works now!

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6694&mode=view

 

[JUPITERASC]

Thus my buddy JupiterAsc,

This is very funny, Try a Birth chart for John Doe on 1st January 1753 at midnight, anywhere you like, try it anywhere, you will love my symbolism about John Doe!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Doe

So now try it after Greenwich Meridian was put in place, Jupiter returned to the M.C. at midnight on 1st January 2002....it gets difficult to apply now...doesn't it? So how does every 15 degree multiples/Longitude apply give or take a degree in New York or Cairo, you have the answer within you JupiterAsc!!!

If we are going to get angles true with Longitude, then we must examine local time!

You have presented quite a conundrum Monk... very difficult indeed since many abstruse calculations required - unless we have assistance from The very helpful Equation of Time

QUOTE:

“Table of Mean Value of the Equation of Time, in Minutes (at true Noon)”

“To correct Solar Time for Standard Time: Add Equation of Time when Sun "slow," i.e., sign is positive (+); subtract when Sun "fast," i.e., sign is negative (-)”

http://www.wsanford.com/~wsanford/exo/sundials/equation_of_time.html

 

[JUPITERASC]

btw this link provides more details regarding the whys and wherefores of "The Equation of Time" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_time

The following 100 word Extract focuses on the nub of the matter

"'Equation' is here used in a somewhat archaic sense, meaning "correction". Prior to invention of pendulum-controlled mechanical clocks, sundials were the only reliable timepieces, and were generally considered to tell the right time. Right time was essentially defined as that which was shown by a sundial. When good clocks were introduced, they usually disagreed with sundials, so the equation of time was used to "correct" their readings to obtain sundial time. Some clocks, called equation clocks, included an internal mechanism to perform this correction. Later, as clocks became the dominant good timepieces, uncorrected clock time was accepted as being accurate"

 

[byjove]

Ask your mother some more questions byjove to home in on her reasons for saying that - perhaps she has good reason to say this - and of course she may also be mistaken... intriguing

So both your aunt and your mother agree that it was AFTER the time given by the hospital... at least there is consensus there! As well as that, it is not unusual for clerical errors aka human errors to occur in hospitals and elsewhere

Monk shall have an answer for you byjove however, I just wanted to say that astrology software IS far from perfect and is prone to error!

I can add one more person to the picture; my eldest sister. A classic Cancerian with a usually excellent memory, she said 1.5/2 hours after the hospital time. I have probably exhausted family with questions, though I may contact the hospital and see if I'm given the same time again.

All I know is I think it was Ms. Scarlet in the kitchen with the revolver.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I can add one more person to the picture; my eldest sister. A classic Cancerian with a usually excellent memory, she said 1.5/2 hours after the hospital time. I have probably exhausted family with questions

1.5/2 hours by jove? So between 1.5 and 2 hours? So your sister is in broad agreement with your aunt. If both are broadly correct then the hospital clearly 'estimated' the time!

though I may contact the hospital and see if I'm given the same time again.

Good idea... any way you may be allowed to view original notes made at that time? Should be on your medical records as well as your mothers medical records

All I know is I think it was Ms. Scarlet in the kitchen with the revolver.

Ms. Scarlet in the kitchen? Was that before or after you had gathered everyone in the library to tell them you had solved the mystery?