Ruler of my 8th conjunct Ascendant?

[MJ82]

Someone pointed out today (I hadn't seen in this way before) that Venus, which is the ruler of my 8th house stellium, is conjunct my ASC.

What significance is this exactly? What does it mean when the ruler of the 8th (or of any house, especially with planets there) is conjunct the ASC?

I understand what Venus conjunct ASC means, but it's the ruler of the 8th I'm curious about, especially since it's my most populated house. Thanks!

 

[tautomer]

I'm not entirely sure. The aspect, sign, and house they are in themselves really is the most important player for an overall read of what is going on in someones chart. I'd imagine the fact that it is a house ruler will just add a small veneer to everything else going on with it.

In the case of venus conjunct the ascendent, I suspect it might put a bit of a deeper spin on things in respect to the aspect, but it would be minor. You also have to remember that venus rules taurus as well. In the case of your chart, it's going to rule your third house as well. While that house is empty, it may still have a lesser effect.

At the end of the day, I think this is simply beyond my skill level to interpret. The depth to which this effect would play out though; marginal at best. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Judy_AzVirgo]

You certainly do have a well-populated 8th house! But Venus conjunct your Ascendant, to my mind, is iffy.... it's 8 degrees away. More of a 12th house energy, I think.

I'll quote from Karen Hamaker-Zontag's The House Connection. She's not writing about Venus, of course, but maybe her comments would help you sort this out?

On the ruler of the 8th in the 12th:

"Our need for intensity, our desire to penetrate to the core of things and to tackle complexes and neuroses, and our striving for power, are concentrated on our need for detachment and isolation, and on a longing for a rich inner life in which material things have lost their luster... "

On the ruler of the 8th in the 1st:

"Our need to challenge, unravel, and unmask things reveals itself in our attitude to the outside world. This means that everyone and everything we meet is put through a series of tests to see what might be wrong with them, before we bother to look for their good points... (W)e experience our vulnerability so strongly in everyday life that we act forcefully quite often in order to disguise our uncertainty. Frequently we attempt to obtain a position of authority (sometimes small but often big) within our circle."


IMO, Venus in Aquarius at the Ascendant would be attractive, very charming and sociable, if rather uninhibited at expressing itself... flirtatious, maybe. Or, given Hamaker-Zontag's description, maybe flaunting itself or challenging men to try to win her.

Venus in the 12th would act very much the way Sun in Pisces and a stellium of 8th house planets act... probably far more private at expressing Venus love and intimacy, maybe seeking a 'soul mate' to share innermost thoughts; needing lots of alone time to contemplate any imbalances and to process some deeply intense feelings.

On the other hand, you have that lovely Moon-Venus trine in Air signs, and Venus in Aquarius sextile Uranus/Midheaven, so Venus may be very prominent in your personality regardless of whether or not it's conjunct the Ascendant.

So: do you play that Venus in spades, as if it's at the Ascendant? Or in a subdued and private way?

 

[MJ82]

You certainly do have a well-populated 8th house! But Venus conjunct your Ascendant, to my mind, is iffy.... it's 8 degrees away. More of a 12th house energy, I think.

I'll quote from Karen Hamaker-Zontag's The House Connection. She's not writing about Venus, of course, but maybe her comments would help you sort this out?

On the ruler of the 8th in the 12th:

"Our need for intensity, our desire to penetrate to the core of things and to tackle complexes and neuroses, and our striving for power, are concentrated on our need for detachment and isolation, and on a longing for a rich inner life in which material things have lost their luster... "

On the ruler of the 8th in the 1st:

"Our need to challenge, unravel, and unmask things reveals itself in our attitude to the outside world. This means that everyone and everything we meet is put through a series of tests to see what might be wrong with them, before we bother to look for their good points... (W)e experience our vulnerability so strongly in everyday life that we act forcefully quite often in order to disguise our uncertainty. Frequently we attempt to obtain a position of authority (sometimes small but often big) within our circle."

I definitely agree that my Venus is very 12th house and that the conjunction is wide. As for the above, I'm not sure I completely understand the first description, though I recognise the need for regular periods of alone time!

The second description does actually resonate somewhat, though that may be down to my full 8th house, and it's not about testing to see what's wrong with people, rather a lot of psychological analysis, which is just natural and automatic, and sometimes rather tiring, lol.

IMO, Venus in Aquarius at the Ascendant would be attractive, very charming and sociable, if rather uninhibited at expressing itself... flirtatious, maybe. Or, given Hamaker-Zontag's description, maybe flaunting itself or challenging men to try to win her.

Venus in the 12th would act very much the way Sun in Pisces and a stellium of 8th house planets act... probably far more private at expressing Venus love and intimacy, maybe seeking a 'soul mate' to share innermost thoughts; needing lots of alone time to contemplate any imbalances and to process some deeply intense feelings.

On the other hand, you have that lovely Moon-Venus trine in Air signs, and Venus in Aquarius sextile Uranus/Midheaven, so Venus may be very prominent in your personality regardless of whether or not it's conjunct the Ascendant.

So: do you play that Venus in spades, as if it's at the Ascendant? Or in a subdued and private way?

I must say, when I was younger, I used to play my Venus in spades, not sure if that's the wide contact to my ascendant or the other Venus aspects/Libra, but I used to give off misleading signals without even meaning to. It wasn't conscious (funny that, 12th house and hidden consequences?) but it created problems when I realised that people liked me and I just thought of them as friends. I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I've worked on myself, because the realisation was painful. I certainly don't want to give out the wrong signals and I did in the past, more than once. So I realised I needed to become aware of this because it would hurt people. And I'm not a happy-go-lucky break-your-heart type. I actually find it repelling, I have too much respect for how people feel to treat them so frivolously.

When it comes to my falling for someone, I'm not always very forthright, but it's not that I'm subdued, only that I don't come right out immediately and say "I like you!" (saturn in the 8th may play it's part), so more private as well. But as you say, a lot of 8th house can make one private and so can sun in pisces....

 

[Lin]

I would really like you to educate US on what this means to you! You have a very unusual situaton....that Venus, the ruler of all that energy in Pluto's house, restricted by being in the 12th! Tell US what it means.
In what way does each planet in Libra feel like it is inhibited - or not immediately usable? 8th house energy, tho secretive, is usually very magnetic and usable. But with the ruler in the 12th there must be some restriction.
Would you share this with us?
btw, one of the most interesting energies is the moon here. Could you share with us your mother's personality (and if she was restricted in some way, how it affected you?)
LIN

 

[MJ82]

I would really like you to educate US on what this means to you! You have a very unusual situaton....that Venus, the ruler of all that energy in Pluto's house, restricted by being in the 12th! Tell US what it means.
In what way does each planet in Libra feel like it is inhibited - or not immediately usable? 8th house energy, tho secretive, is usually very magnetic and usable. But with the ruler in the 12th there must be some restriction.
Would you share this with us?
btw, one of the most interesting energies is the moon here. Could you share with us your mother's personality (and if she was restricted in some way, how it affected you?)
LIN

Hi Lin,

Interesting points and questions. I know 12th house energy is more hidden, but I'd like to think it doesn't restrict my 8th house stellium too much! I don't know if the following things make a difference: that I have 8th house planets in aspect to my ascendant (like moon, mars and saturn) and my luminaries by aspect and declination, and that venus is in that wide conjunct to the ascendant. But maybe it's far too wide.

To answer your question as to what it means to me: I have to say that the 8th house has been huge in my life, though I'm not sure how having my 8th house ruler in the 12th specifically affects things. Interestingly, I have the reverse situation of having the ruler of my 12th in the 8th too, so maybe this alters things a little or mitigates it.

When I was younger I was much more 12th house for sure and overwhelmed by the 8th house energy but in a way I could't understand or easily recognize (regardless of not knowing about astrology). I was strongly affected by my stellium (deep feelings about things and people, very strong attractions, psychological issues and subconscious responses, all of which seemed to overwhelm me and "grip me", but I wasn't conscious (12th) of this enough to be able to handle it and work through it like I, thankfully, am now. So one way I see this working out is that my 8th house issues affected me strongly but they were beyond subconscious (8th), they were almost unconscious (12th). This has radically changed though as I've gotten older. Perhaps this is having Pluto in the 8th and the ability (along with it aspecting my Mercury) to see directly into my subconscious (something I was "untrained" to do when I was younger).

Today, while it works at many levels, I'd say my 8th house stellium affects me most strongly in relationships (Libra) for sure. As for the moon in the 8th, I can't say my mom was particularly restricted in any way, nothing springs to mind. My mother is a very strong woman (but also very sensitive) and we are very close, but when I was younger (I'm an only child raised by a single mom) she could be very overprotective and smother-loving. I have to say that the love part always came through more than the smothering, so it wasn't a very bad thing, but definitely too much at times, when I have always been someone who needs my freedom and space.

When I was in college we had a year and a half of being emotionally estranged for different reasons, and it was a very tough time. It was then that I fully realized how complex our relationship is in some ways. I've learned in my life that I can affirm my own boundaries and life needs without loving any less. I think when I was younger I confused the two: that to love was to be there in exactly the way those closest to me "needed". Well let's just say I've grown up since then

Anyway, I think, just from answering your question, that the ruler of the 8th in the 12th meant that my 8th house planets were inhibited earlier on, in the sense that I had no conscious handle on them. But the ruler of the 12th in the 8th gives an interesting description, and maybe this has helped to unlock my 8th house ruler...? :

http://www.alanoken.com/newsletter/Oct07/newsletter1007d.html

When the ruler of the Twelfth House is in the Eighth: A most fascinating placement as it combines the energies of the two most esoteric houses of the horoscope. To the soul-centered, spiritually anchored individual, this combination can give a universality of feeling that makes no person a stranger. It helps us ride the “cloud of all knowable things” and come up with insights to life surprising others as well as ourselves. When positive, this position gives us powerful hidden resources that can be utilized for the good of many people. When negative and/or when expressed in the life of the psychologically or spiritually immature, this placement is the source of much difficulty. It can indicate an addition to substances, people or activities that may do much to tear ourselves down and take us on a most degenerative track in life.

 

[MJ82]

A side note, but is there a way of my rectifying my chart myself? I mean by checking transits for major events and turning points in my life? The reason I ask is that I recently read a thread on here that says even seemingly specific birth times could be off, and I checked my chart with a ten minute time difference and it changes quite a few things.

I was born premature so an emergency birth and both my mom and I were near death, so perhaps the recorded time in that situation is even less accurate? Would be interesting to get it exact.

 

[Judy_AzVirgo]

I share your problem with house cusps, since I also have a bunch of cuspy planets (Moon, Uranus, Saturn, Neptune) that bounce from one house to another depending on the house system used. And 3 angular planets that could go before or after the angles depending on the time. Reading the descriptions of planets in various houses, I could see either/both house description fitting in some ways. So, not entirely helpful.

Just tracking major events didn't quite do it for rectification, either ... too many ifs/ands/buts.

What I did (yeah, I know, this method is very Virgo-y) was to print out several charts using different house systems and several intervals of time (between 11:30 "Mom time" and 11:45 a.m. "Dad time"; I also had official birth certificate time of 11:42). Then I waited.

Over some months of time, I didn't get much of a feel for the faster planet transits from house cusps, but was able to 'catch' Saturn and Uranus changing houses. (For instance, Saturn right at the Koch 6th house for one of the times coincided exactly with the onset of a health problem; Uranus at my IC of one of the timed charts brought some changes to my home.) Those two slower planets clinched it for me; they had more impact. The birth certificate was essentially correct, and the Koch system worked best for me. In fact, this is the major reason why I don't use a whole-sign house system: it just doesn't correspond to events.

But I also found that a key planet (my Ascendant ruler is one) can have an effect when it's a degree or so away from a house. I think that's not unusual.

Having gone through this, I still, years later, check house cusp transits to be sure the chart is "right". (It is.) And I'm not sure it's possible to get a perfect, to-the-minute Ascendant. But as long as you know you're close, does it matter?


PS: Interesting point about learning to create boundaries "without loving any less", and that you confused it when young. When I first looked at your chart, I wondered if there was a 'boundary' issue regarding love, with Venus in the 12th. But then those 8th house planets seem, at this level, to be very much about creating boundaries, so I figured you had worked it out! Guess you did.

 

[MJ82]

Judy, that would be an interesting exercise, if only I could muster some of your Virgoan patience! Lol (says the Pisces)

But seriously, I might at least look back at transits for my existing Placidus chart and see how things correlate, if at all. I do very much believe this house system is right for me, so more a question of how accurate 4:40am is on my birth certificate.

PS: Interesting point about learning to create boundaries "without loving any less", and that you confused it when young. When I first looked at your chart, I wondered if there was a 'boundary' issue regarding love, with Venus in the 12th. But then those 8th house planets seem, at this level, to be very much about creating boundaries, so I figured you had worked it out! Guess you did.

An astrologer once told me I am here, in this incarnation, to learn major lessons about boundaries, and boy am I. I am working it out is the truth, but I do think I'm a lot less stuck in my 12th, and much more aware of how the 8th operates in my personality and life.

 

[JUPITERASC]

But seriously, I might at least look back at transits for my existing Placidus chart and see how things correlate, if at all. I do very much believe this house system is right for me, so more a question of how accurate 4:40am is on my birth certificate.

If at the time of your birth both you and your mother were near death, then it is possible that the medics were totally focused on saving your lives - and not so concerned as to what time the clock said it was. Although having said that, IMO, checking a natal chart for correlations with transits is a basic requirement for all charts. The basic requirement is that your natal chart is a 'working chart'.

When looking back at transits for major events in life, as well as noting all aspects from transiting planets to the angles, remember to note in particular aspects from all the rulers of the ASC/MC/IC/DESC to other planets as well as to the angles themselves

 

[Judy_AzVirgo]

I do very much believe this house system is right for me, so more a question of how accurate 4:40am is on my birth certificate.

I get suspicious of any time that's right on the "0", as in 4:40. Anyway, good luck with it! I'm sure you'll find a way.

An astrologer once told me I am here, in this incarnation, to learn major lessons about boundaries, and boy am I. I am working it out is the truth, but I do think I'm a lot less stuck in my 12th, and much more aware of how the 8th operates in my personality and life.

Both of those houses take a lot of work to understand, I think. But you seem to be a very "aware" person, and that's at least half the battle right there. I suspect you'll just get better and better at it.

 

[MJ82]

If at the time of your birth both you and your mother were near death, then it is possible that the medics were totally focused on saving your lives - and not so concerned as to what time the clock said it was. Although having said that, IMO, checking a natal chart for correlations with transits is a basic requirement for all charts. The basic requirement is that your natal chart is a 'working chart'.

When looking back at transits for major events in life, as well as noting all aspects from transiting planets to the angles, remember to note in particular aspects from all the rulers of the ASC/MC/IC/DESC to other planets as well as to the angles themselves

Well I know that I feel my current transit of pluto square my 8th house moon, but maybe t pluto isn't the best aspect to go by because it's so slow and long in duration..?

I will go back and have a look.

Thanks JupiterASC, and thank you Judy_AzVirgo, I really hope so!

 

[JUPITERASC]

Well I know that I feel my current transit of pluto square my 8th house moon, but maybe t pluto isn't the best aspect to go by because it's so slow and long in duration..? I will go back and have a look. Thanks JupiterASC, and thank you Judy_AzVirgo, I really hope so!

If you focus on the seven visible planets to begin with, then you'll find that you have more than enough aspects to cope with - especially if you have many exact dates of events to check!

 

[MJ82]

If you focus on the seven visible planets to begin with, then you'll find that you have more than enough aspects to cope with - especially if you have many exact dates of events to check!

I do have specific dates for major events (give or take a couple of weeks), my parents divorce when I was 6, a major health diagnosis in college, when I came out to my parents (just before graduating from high school) etc. But what are the key planets to look out for in relation to these things, to health shocks, divorce traumas etc?

I had so many transits going that were making aspects to my ascendant for instance, when I was given a tough diagnosis in 2003, just before the Iraq blitz. I don't really know how to parse them. Is it better to look at key planets on the angles, like a planet passing over or approaching an angle? Because there are many transiting aspects!

Trying to figure this out, thanks for your help

 

[MJ82]

And once I have all the aspects listed for a particular life event, what do I do next? If I were to create a few transit charts for key events (with very accurate dates) for my existing chart, would an experienced astrologer be able to gauge if my birth time was off? I don't even know how fast or slow certain planets transit to be able to tell if something was accurate or not.

I know I'd need to pay for a professional rectification if I had doubts due to the trauma both my mother and I were in, but do you think it's worth having done?

 

[JUPITERASC]

I do have specific dates for major events (give or take a couple of weeks)

"give or take a couple of weeks" is totally too inaccurate!

Specific dates for major events means the actual exact day as well as the precise time of the occurrence - e.g. precise date AND time the space shuttle landed on the main road by your front door... precise date and time of being wheeled into the operating theater to have appendix removed... precise date and time of any accidents involving broken bones... precise date and time of first day at work... precise date and time of graduation award... precise date and time of car crashes... precise date and time of relocating to new home...

...my parents divorce when I was 6

precise date of when decree nisi granted
precise date of any relocation that resulted

a major health diagnosis in college

precise date and time on the official letter giving diagnosis
and/or precise date and time of appointment with doc/medic who delivered the news

when I came out to my parents (just before graduating from high school) etc.

Precise date and time you told your parents and precise date and time of graduation day

But what are the key planets to look out for in relation to these things, to health shocks, divorce traumas etc?

(a) Health involves the physical body, hence transits to the ascendant, transits to the ascendant ruler and transits by the ascendant ruler on the specific day of the health shock

(b) divorce involves transits to the Descendant, transits to the descendant ruler, and transits by the descendant ruler on the specific day of the decree nisi

(c) divorce involves MC also. Thus transits to MC and to MC ruler, as well as transits by MC ruler to any of the angles by conjunction, trine, square and/or opposition
btw Here's a link to my thread entitled "How to Rectify/Verify your Ascendant by Using Your Wedding Day Chart" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46743

I had so many transits going that were making aspects to my ascendant for instance, when I was given a tough diagnosis in 2003, just before the Iraq blitz. I don't really know how to parse them. Is it better to look at key planets on the angles, like a planet passing over or approaching an angle? Because there are many transiting aspects!
Trying to figure this out, thanks for your help

You got it! Better to focus on the following basics:

(a) any planets on the angles, i.e. any planet conjunct, trine, square or opposing any angle.

(b) any ruler of any one of the four angles on any one of the angles. i.e. any ruling planet of any one of the four angles that is conjunct, trine, square or opposing any angle

All the above is merely my opinion and others may disagree

 

[JUPITERASC]

And once I have all the aspects listed for a particular life event, what do I do next? If I were to create a few transit charts for key events (with very accurate dates) for my existing chart, would an experienced astrologer be able to gauge if my birth time was off? I don't even know how fast or slow certain planets transit to be able to tell if something was accurate or not.

I know I'd need to pay for a professional rectification if I had doubts due to the trauma both my mother and I were in, but do you think it's worth having done?

No harm in learning basic rectification, don't be put off by thinking it is 'too difficult' - it is interesting

 

[MJ82]

Thank you! Just got some exact dates, will play around )

 

[IleneK]

Thank you! Just got some exact dates, will play around )

I have found that observing carefully when transiting Mars approaches your Ascendant to see if you can feel the change in energy is a handy way to make minor adjustments to the Ascendant and then your corresponding birth time.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Thank you! Just got some exact dates, will play around )

Have fun! What you are sleuthing for are:

(a) transiting planets in Fixed signs close to or at the degree of your ascendant/descendant for the given time of birth

(b) transiting planets in mutable signs close to or at the degree of your MC/IC for the given time of birth

"How to Rectify/Verify your Ascendant by Using Your Wedding Day Chart" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=46743