Ukraine Sell out

[John Thompson]

What surprises me most is that he was less than stellar in handling the Covid crisis, all of which got conveniently forgotten.

Zelensky must feel like someone who has been thrown under a bus right now.

Where's Putin's Gemini Moon in relation to Trump's chart? I would also wonder where Mars and Pluto are in relation to Trump's chart.

There are several worrying synastry aspects between Trump and Putin. The first is that Trumps Jupiter in Libra is stationary [stationary planets having the ability to over ride/dominate an entire chart]. His Jupiter [untold optimism of his own diplomatic abilities] is conjunct Putin's Saturn to the minute of arc. Putin holds his plans [Saturn] close to his chest and gives nothing away to others [Libra]. His Saturn is also square to unpredictable Uranus in Cancer with transiting Mars now conjunct with the progressed Moon opposite; this can relate to an abandonment of any agreements made. Putin's Moon, while too wide for meaningful connections for Trumps Gemini stuff, it's square the midpoint of his Saturn/Uranus square and sesqui-quadrate Trumps Jupiter. Putin's Pluto is on Zelensky's IC trying to undermine his foundations, with Trumps Mars not far off but applying to Zelensky's 4th house Saturn. I don't like this synastry at all. Something I've also noted is that Trumps Mercury [talks/negotiation] is on the Ukrainian Independence chart; speaking for the people of Ukraine. Putin's Chiron is directly opposite on the Ukrainian descendant; inflicting wounds on the Ukrainian people. Often Mercury/Chiron combinations are never satisfactory in negotiation..

 

[Nexus7]

Thanks!

 

[Nexus7]

There are several worrying synastry aspects between Trump and Putin. The first is that Trumps Jupiter in Libra is stationary [stationary planets having the ability to over ride/dominate an entire chart]. His Jupiter [untold optimism of his own diplomatic abilities] is conjunct Putin's Saturn to the minute of arc. Putin holds his plans [Saturn] close to his chest and gives nothing away to others [Libra]. His Saturn is also square to unpredictable Uranus in Cancer with transiting Mars now conjunct with the progressed Moon opposite; this can relate to an abandonment of any agreements made. Putin's Moon, while too wide for meaningful connections for Trumps Gemini stuff, it's square the midpoint of his Saturn/Uranus square and sesqui-quadrate Trumps Jupiter. Putin's Pluto is on Zelensky's IC trying to undermine his foundations, with Trumps Mars not far off but applying to Zelensky's 4th house Saturn. I don't like this synastry at all. Something I've also noted is that Trumps Mercury [talks/negotiation] is on the Ukrainian Independence chart; speaking for the people of Ukraine. Putin's Chiron is directly opposite on the Ukrainian descendant; inflicting wounds on the Ukrainian people. Often Mercury/Chiron combinations are never satisfactory in negotiation..

Thanks, as you say, this is not edifying. And I note that Putin's Pluto is on Trump's Mars. Trump uses his martial aggression to bully, but I don't see how it could hold a csnfle to Pluto.

I see an exact Marcury Saturn in the synastry too. And when it comes to Jupiter and Saturn, it does seem to me that Saturn will be the dominant partner. For Putin, a spider lying awake in its nest, this looks a lot more like a blistering useful idiot rather than one bully being able to put another bully in its place.

There is the suggestion that Putin may have something over Trump, and the Pluto link and the Mercury Saturn aspect doesn't do much to dispel that idea.

 

[John Thompson]

There is the suggestion that Putin may have something over Trump, and the Pluto link and the Mercury Saturn aspect doesn't do much to dispel that idea.

I kind of wonder that with both Trump and Putin having planets at the their relative Saturn/Uranus midpoints [Moon for Putin, Neptune for Trump], that there is indeed something behind the scenes that can be construed as ultimately 'dodgy'. Moon/Neptune can certainly indicate a form of 'sleight of hand'.

 

[Nexus7]

Thanks, as you say, this is not edifying. And I note that Putin's Pluto is on Trump's Mars. Trump uses his martial aggression to bully, but I don't see how it could hold a csnfle to Pluto.

I see an exact Marcury Saturn in the synastry too. And when it comes to Jupiter and Saturn, it does seem to me that Saturn will be the dominant partner. For Putin, a spider lying awake in its nest, this looks a lot more like a blistering useful idiot rather than one bully being able to put another bully in their place. Jupiter then may be over confident in the face of that inscrutable and duplicitous Sun/Neptune/Saturn. By the way, Putin as psi has an exact Mercury/Eris conjunction natally. I don't think Eris has room for much negotiating.

There is the suggestion that Putin may have something over Trump, and the Pluto link and the Mercury Saturn aspect doesn't do much to dispel that idea.

 

[Nexus7]

I kind of wonder that with both Trump and Putin having planets at the their relative Saturn/Uranus midpoints [Moon for Putin, Neptune for Trump], that there is indeed something behind the scenes that can be construed as ultimately 'dodgy'. Moon/Neptune can certainly indicate a form of 'sleight of hand'.

What has Cosi to say about Daturn/Uranus links?

 

[John Thompson]

What has Cosi to say about Daturn/Uranus links?

Briefly. Principle = Irritability and inhibition, tension. Character = A self-willed nature, tenaciousness and toughness, obstinacy, strong emotional tensions or stresses. Probable manifestations = + Growth of strength caused through the overcoming of difficulties, difficult but successful battles in life for the purpose of overcoming a dangerous situation. - = Kicking against tutelage and against the limitation of freedom, the tendency to cause unrest within ones environment, a quarrel, separation, the use of force, interventions in one's destiny, the limitation of freedom. Sociological Correspondence = violent people. PS My son in law has Sun conjunct both Saturn and Uranus in Sag, with Mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio; he's a bomb disposal expert.

 

[waybread]

What or who is Cosi?

I truly believed during Trump I that Putin had him over a barrel -- whether it was compromising videos from Trump's Russian beautify pageant days, or his indebtedness to shady Russian lenders I wasn't sure. Or there might be something more like the stuff of spy thrillers. I dunno, Something like Russia having hacked into US military networks.

The Russians have a saying that someone is a "useful idiot." Not a Russian operative, but a Russian asset. Putin must be delighted with Trump's imperialism and JD Vance's empowering the German far-right, as they justify Putin's own imperialism agenda. "You want Canada? Sure. Meanwhile you can't squawk about our annexation of the old USSR."

More to the point, Ukraine is in Putin's backyard. He wants its minerals. Hence the invasion. Trump offered Ukraine verbal assurances only of security and aid in exchange for massive mineral rights. Which Putin would have known Zelinsky would reject.


I just looked at Zelensky's solar arc chart. No, it doesn't look wonderful, but solar arc sun and Venus conjunct asteroid Nike closely trine natal asteroid Victoria might be helpful.

 

[Cosmiccradle]

I'm not well versed in Mundane, Synastry I do use but that in itself has many forms leading to different interpretations/insights. With regards to the possibility that Poetin is blackmailing Trump if this would be the case I believe it makes little difference to the situation. This is an ego trip on both sides. However having read through all the posts I would say that it gives the correct view/position as to the relationship between Poetin and Trump and the hidden dangers and deceit that will play a roll in the negotiations, outcome and relationship. But that isn't surprising when one takes into consideration the characters involved. Excluding Ukraine in the talks speaks volumes. To say the least both have tyrant and dictator qualities with honesty totally lacking. This we have seen for ourselves over the years.

 

[Cosmiccradle]

What has Cosi to say about Daturn/Uranus links?

The working of Saturn/Uranus is very negative. With keywords like "violence, inner tension, resistance, restriction of freedom, conflict, persistent, abnormal behavior, irritability" just to name a few. The Moon's roll strengthens the inner tension, Neptune's roll is even more damaging, the inability to cope with inner tension because of weakness, abandonment, surrendering, no resistance, to mention but a few. The working of the planets together is one of violence and destructiveness. Trump will play the peacemaker and lie about the negotiations as will Poetin, Ukraine will be manipulated by both sides through pressure of total destruction, there will be no peace and only one winner, that will be Poetin. Let's be honest Trump is no match for Poetin.

Zelensky is smart enough not to accept the terms that are reached by Trump/Poetin, hold out until the terms reached will safeguard Ukraine and that Russia is rightfully seen as the aggressor and treated as such. But I do not see America nor Russia willing to safeguard Ukraine. Poetin is Stalin make no mistake. As for Trump, let the American people decide what he is.....

 

[Nexus7]

Briefly. Principle = Irritability and inhibition, tension. Character = A self-willed nature, tenaciousness and toughness, obstinacy, strong emotional tensions or stresses. Probable manifestations = + Growth of strength caused through the overcoming of difficulties, difficult but successful battles in life for the purpose of overcoming a dangerous situation. - = Kicking against tutelage and against the limitation of freedom, the tendency to cause unrest within ones environment, a quarrel, separation, the use of force, interventions in one's destiny, the limitation of freedom. Sociological Correspondence = violent people. PS My son in law has Sun conjunct both Saturn and Uranus in Sag, with Mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio; he's a bomb disposal expert.

Thank you. Arguably a pretty disruptive combination. Neptune especially might not help there

 

[Cosmiccradle]

Wrongly edited.

 

[Nexus7]

What or who is Cosi?

I truly believed during Trump I that Putin had him over a barrel -- whether it was compromising videos from Trump's Russian beautify pageant days, or his indebtedness to shady Russian lenders I wasn't sure. Or there might be something more like the stuff of spy thrillers. I dunno, Something like Russia having hacked into US military networks.

The Russians have a saying that someone is a "useful idiot." Not a Russian operative, but a Russian asset. Putin must be delighted with Trump's imperialism and JD Vance's empowering the German far-right, as they justify Putin's own imperialism agenda. "You want Canada? Sure. Meanwhile you can't squawk about our annexation of the old USSR."

More to the point, Ukraine is in Putin's backyard. He wants its minerals. Hence the invasion. Trump offered Ukraine verbal assurances only of security and aid in exchange for massive mineral rights. Which Putin would have known Zelinsky would reject.


I just looked at Zelensky's solar arc chart. No, it doesn't look wonderful, but solar arc sun and Venus conjunct asteroid Nike closely trine natal asteroid Victoria might be helpful.

Ebertin's handbook on midpoints, The Combination of Stellar Influences.

 

[Cosmiccradle]

Even more worrying is the quality of the American negotiators, contradicting each other and they haven't even seriously begun. Not one having any experience is such important political matters. Trump called it a "rookie mistake." That's what you get when you hire amateurs to your government. Their bungling will do more harm than good, for America and the world. The blind leading the blind.

 

[JupiterinCap]

Trump's peace feels like the sellout of Poland after the second world war between the allies. This man doesn't have a single presidential quality. Appeasement leads to war and that is what this is.

Nobody is stopping any Polish national from fighting on the front lines. Have many Poles have done that?
How many in europe who want to keep fighting have signed up to fight Russia?

You expect USA to send OUR military to fight your wars. Not going to happen. President Trump is ending this ridiculous war + ended ALL funding to Ukraine.

We saved you in ww2 by sending our military to defeat Nazi Germany. Russia sacrificed millions of military men to save you + now you want to fight them for the bankers?

You are on your own this time. If europe doesn't want peace, then round up citizens to go fight Russia. America is not going to help you one bit.

 

[JupiterinCap]

What the EU think about President Trump negotiating with Putin to end the war is irrelevant.
They don't have a say in the matter;
NATO only exists because of the USA military + funding + every western nation dances to her tune.
Ukraine was NEVER going to be part of NATO; Russia would never allow it.

Over 100B gone 'missing' in Ukraine Zelensky recently admitted!
He's demanding the USA send $250B more but Trump has cut ALL funding for 90 days while he makes a peace deal.
Marco Rubio has already spoken at length with his Russian counter part & now Trump + Putin will meet.


USA + Russia will begin negotiations in Saudi Arabia to end the war in Ukraine.
Ukraine + Europe are not invited + will not be asked for their opinion because nothing depends on them.
They have done their job as "useful idiots", + now they can only watch and remain silent.
Zelensky's statements that he will not accept an agreement that does not include Ukraine are ridiculous.
The moment the US stops the delivery of weapons completely, Ukraine will have 2-3 months before it completely collapses.
Europe, USA will be the biggest losers from this war, and here we are at that stage.


WHEN did PEACE become a dirty thing to do?
Trump wants the KILLING to END, both for Ukraine(whose military have suffered heavy losses) +
Russians (again 95% military but not nearly as heavy as the Ukraine losses).

It could be more than 1M dead, all for the stock holders at Black Rock + defense military contractors to get very wealthy.

And where did the 'missing' 100B go?

 

[Cosmiccradle]

Nobody is stopping any Polish national from fighting on the front lines. Have many Poles have done that?
How many in europe who want to keep fighting have signed up to fight Russia?

You expect USA to send OUR military to fight your wars. Not going to happen. President Trump is ending this ridiculous war + ended ALL funding to Ukraine.

We saved you in ww2 by sending our military to defeat Nazi Germany. Russia sacrificed millions of military men to save you + now you want to fight them for the bankers?

You are on your own this time. If europe doesn't want peace, then round up citizens to go fight Russia. America is not going to help you one bit.

I would be grateful if you would read my post #11 I find this misplaced.

 

[JupiterinCap]

I truly believed during Trump I that Putin had him over a barrel -- whether it was compromising videos from Trump's Russian beautify pageant days, or his indebtedness to shady Russian lenders I wasn't sure. Or there might be something more like the stuff of spy thrillers. I dunno, Something like Russia having hacked into US military networks.

All lies. There was no blackmail tapes, there was no collusion, that was all on Hilary Clinton. I posted about it before but you deleted the posting as it proved that the Dems were behind the Russian hoax. EVERY crime they accused Trump of, they did! Projection.

Mueller spent millions of dollars + 2 years + ending up reporting that there was NO collusion + NOTHING against Trump.

ALL the FBI agents involved in the plot against Trump were FIRED, every single one. Hilary was fined over 100,000 for the fake dossier which led to Trump's impeachment.

Once Kash Patel starts uncovering the crimes, Russia gate is nothing compared to Benghazi, Uranium One, Obama spying on Trump campaign + other scandals. Buckle up because there's going to be so much exposed.

 

[JupiterinCap]

I would be grateful if you would read my post #11 I find this misplaced.

I read it, you said Trump was 'appeasing Russia'. If you have a problem with peace, then there's nothing preventing you from signing up to fight on the Ukraine front lines. Or any european who wants to keep up this proxy war.


When did wanting people to stop getting killed become a negative?

President Trump wants something in exchange for the billions our govt sent to them + having the rights to their rare earth minerals is a great idea if that can be negotiated with Putin. At least our taxpayers will get something out of this war which could have ended very quickly if EU wanted it to.

 

[Cosmiccradle]

I read it, you said Trump was 'appeasing Russia'. If you have a problem with peace, then there's nothing preventing you from signing up to fight on the Ukraine front lines. Or any european who wants to keep up this proxy war.


When did wanting people to stop getting killed become a negative?

President Trump wants something in exchange for the billions our govt sent to them + having the rights to their rare earth minerals is a great idea if that can be negotiated with Putin. At least our taxpayers will get something out of this war which could have ended very quickly if EU wanted it to.

I believe you missed "
I do agree with the president on one thing, it is not America's place to defend Europe. Nor to accept the loss of American lives to do so. But do not forget that to this day, here in the Netherlands, after 80 years there is a waiting list for those that want to tend and care for the last resting place of the soldiers that lost their lives for our freedom and democracy. So strongly remains the gratitude and understanding of what they lost. However I do hope the man (and his party) have enough sense to see who his allies and friends are and not strive toward isolationism."