USA Pluto's Natal Return, July 16, 2024, Sidereal Precession Adjusted

[John Thompson]

Here's something else you may find of interest.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...-path-of-true-discipleship-the-7-the-5.19550/

Here's something else you may find of interest.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...-path-of-true-discipleship-the-7-the-5.19550/

I don't know if you ever came across the American astrologer Mary Devlin; she wrote a book on the 'Astrology and Past Lives' and was a regular contributor for Horoscope magazine. She was a medieval scholar, a musicologist, and also sang in middle and old English. Back to my MC/Venus conjunction on 22/23 Virgo and Uranus on 14th Virgo; I played in a medieval music group with her thirty odd years ago called 'The Lion Tree' [very apt for those degrees and it wasn't myself that named the group!] ; I have many fond memories of those times. She wrote a great article for 'Horoscope' I think in 1994, titled 'Astrology and the Sounds of Music', where I got a lovely mention by her.
PS She was a star pupil of the late Marcia Moore, who taught Mary regression therapy [myself being a recipient of those gifts].

 

[piercethevale]

This is a very interesting question although other compatibilities would need to be exceptional if this is to work. Obviously, Venus in a woman's chart coupled with Mars in a Man's are the 'flip side of the same coin', but all of the five series of aspects need constant stimulation of the senses. Respect for each others perceptions on the physical, emotional realms etc, what you smell like even [sorry!] , sensitivity of touch, the way we perceive language will be very acute. Artistically this can be mega productive, with the signs involved showing the type of input each gives. Emma Belle Donath saw Venus and Mars in quintile as the 'international traveller/adventurer. I don't know about the sexual realm though, because unless each knows exactly what they want and able to express it through all five senses then boredom could become an issue giving way to one sided impotence/affairs conducted by the other. That said, Rob Wilkinson believes the bi quintile to be an 'interactive' aspect which certainly makes sense of my Neptune/Node aspect along with Moon/Mercury, whereby my music and spirituality is so adamantly expressed in group affiliations.

Very good answer. But I was hoping for a textbook like description, in general, as to what kind of stimulation would one be anticipating?
I've never seen any reference to this aspect in synastry mentioned in any book or magazine article [Magazine? Gee that does date me a bit, eh?] Not that I rely on such a description as any sort of boundary to what to recognize, but as a sense of base.
At my age, 71, I've spent some hours studying charts in synastry and found some amazing revelations that text books don't cover, For example, conjunctions are supercharged when within a half of a degree. Like the Casimi of a Mercury - Sun conjunction.
I got a bit of a street "rep" as a astrological consultant on relationships. ..but I haven't done musch of that the last 10 years.
There's so much more to a relationship as to what those two planets have in affect on one another.
If left to my own deductions, then I would, at this time, surmise that such a bi-quintile is a higher vibration that one would need the faculty to benefit from it. It would be a sort of genius for the stimulation of the others' "attentions". Putting out, as we used to say in the '60's, "good vibrations"
Yes, that's the best descriptiion of that experience [over a number of years] that I can provide. It kept the relationship lively, it wasn't enough to sustain it entirely.
We never met physically. Stayed in constant touch for six, or seven, years. Age difference was a barrier, or it was to me,
That brought things to an abrupt halt, more or less... I was 64 and she not yet 30, had known one another for about 5 1/2 years...
Life's been a bit on the skids, ever since... Got natal Venus perfectly square natal Uranus.
When you come to the realization that the polarity of the Zodiac is divided into two potions, Yin & Yang, and Leo to Capricorn are the Signs of Positive Polarity, the others are Negative, the Moon to that side. Thus the realization that the eare both negative and positive polarities of where ones Venus and their Mars are in their natal chart. I have an Aries Venus and a Gemini Mars, two masculine signs in negaive polarity. I'm not what is called an "Alpha type male"
144 different combnations.... Freud is spinning....

 

[piercethevale]

I don't know if you ever came across the American astrologer Mary Devlin; she wrote a book on the 'Astrology and Past Lives' and was a regular contributor for Horoscope magazine. She was a medieval scholar, a musicologist, and also sang in middle and old English. Back to my MC/Venus conjunction on 22/23 Virgo and Uranus on 14th Virgo; I played in a medieval music group with her thirty odd years ago called 'The Lion Tree' [very apt for those degrees and it wasn't myself that named the group!] ; I have many fond memories of those times. She wrote a great article for 'Horoscope' I think in 1994, titled 'Astrology and the Sounds of Music', where I got a lovely mention by her.
PS She was a star pupil of the late Marcia Moore, who taught Mary regression therapy [myself being a recipient of those gifts].

Hello John.
No, I haven't heard of the woman and doubt that i've read anything she has wrote. Ispend most of my time writing on Degree symbolism and Astrological Parts. Trying to decipher what titles were given to some Parts that have titles seemingly adressing mundane issue, or, in short, were devised for use in horary.
I've made some remarkable discoveries, with the help of some forum members, about the true nature of a few of them.
The Astrological Part given as Asc. + Mars - Pluto, was being toutd as the Part of Popularity ¯\_(ツ)_/¯... Really!
It's a close to a Part of War as one can find in a mundane chart. In the USA's chart that is derived to be at 14* 48' 51" [ibid.]
"VIRGO 15°: A FINE LACE HANDKERCHIEF, HEIRLOOM FROM VALOROUS ANCESTORS.
KEYNOTE: The quintessence of deeds well done."
Sounds so bloody British? Oh, that's right, we were too at the time... silly me.
“To every man upon this earth

Death cometh soon or late.

And how can man die better

Than facing fearful odds,

For the ashes of his fathers,

And the temples of his Gods.”


The Asc. of the USA is the 22nd of Aries... but Chiron was in the 21st degree at the time, [ibid.]
"ARIES 21°: A PUGILIST ENTERS THE RING.."
The Part of Fortune...talk about "our manifest destiny"!
25* 40' 42"
[ibid]
"SCORPIO 26°): AMERICAN INDIANS MAKING CAMP AFTER MOVING INTO A NEW TERRITORY.
KEYNOTE: The ability to adjust swiftly to a new situation by tuning in to its requirements."

It's been a pleasure.
ptv

 

[John Thompson]

Hello John.
No, I haven't heard of the woman and doubt that i've read anything she has wrote. Ispend most of my time writing on Degree symbolism and Astrological Parts. Trying to decipher what titles were given to some Parts that have titles seemingly adressing mundane issue, or, in short, were devised for use in horary.
I've made some remarkable discoveries, with the help of some forum members, about the true nature of a few of them.
The Astrological Part given as Asc. + Mars - Pluto, was being toutd as the Part of Popularity ¯\_(ツ)_/¯... Really!
It's a close to a Part of War as one can find in a mundane chart. In the USA's chart that is derived to be at 14* 48' 51" [ibid.]
"VIRGO 15°: A FINE LACE HANDKERCHIEF, HEIRLOOM FROM VALOROUS ANCESTORS.
KEYNOTE: The quintessence of deeds well done."
Sounds so bloody British? Oh, that's right, we were too at the time... silly me.
“To every man upon this earth

Death cometh soon or late.

And how can man die better

Than facing fearful odds,

For the ashes of his fathers,

And the temples of his Gods.”


The Asc. of the USA is the 22nd of Aries... but Chiron was in the 21st degree at the time, [ibid.]
"ARIES 21°: A PUGILIST ENTERS THE RING.."
The Part of Fortune...talk about "our manifest destiny"!
25* 40' 42"
[ibid]
"SCORPIO 26°): AMERICAN INDIANS MAKING CAMP AFTER MOVING INTO A NEW TERRITORY.
KEYNOTE: The ability to adjust swiftly to a new situation by tuning in to its requirements."

It's been a pleasure.
ptv

I mentioned Mary because she is a scholar and really quite well known. I read the link that you gave, but to me it really doesn't make any sense.
Please note that you ascribe Aries to C sharp, Cancer to E sharp and Aquarius to B sharp; the latter two you state as being hypothetical/non-existent. Look at the key of c sharp major, and you will find both an E sharp and a B sharp [key with 7 sharps]. You also ascribe Gemini to D sharp, which only occurs in a key signature as a minor scale; hardly appropriate for Gemini [ and also contains the non-existent E sharp]. Maybe you can explain.

 

[John Thompson]

Very good answer. But I was hoping for a textbook like description, in general, as to what kind of stimulation would one be anticipating?
I've never seen any reference to this aspect in synastry mentioned in any book or magazine article [Magazine? Gee that does date me a bit, eh?] Not that I rely on such a description as any sort of boundary to what to recognize, but as a sense of base.
At my age, 71, I've spent some hours studying charts in synastry and found some amazing revelations that text books don't cover, For example, conjunctions are supercharged when within a half of a degree. Like the Casimi of a Mercury - Sun conjunction.
I got a bit of a street "rep" as a astrological consultant on relationships. ..but I haven't done musch of that the last 10 years.
There's so much more to a relationship as to what those two planets have in affect on one another.
If left to my own deductions, then I would, at this time, surmise that such a bi-quintile is a higher vibration that one would need the faculty to benefit from it. It would be a sort of genius for the stimulation of the others' "attentions". Putting out, as we used to say in the '60's, "good vibrations"
Yes, that's the best descriptiion of that experience [over a number of years] that I can provide. It kept the relationship lively, it wasn't enough to sustain it entirely.
We never met physically. Stayed in constant touch for six, or seven, years. Age difference was a barrier, or it was to me,
That brought things to an abrupt halt, more or less... I was 64 and she not yet 30, had known one another for about 5 1/2 years...
Life's been a bit on the skids, ever since... Got natal Venus perfectly square natal Uranus.
When you come to the realization that the polarity of the Zodiac is divided into two potions, Yin & Yang, and Leo to Capricorn are the Signs of Positive Polarity, the others are Negative, the Moon to that side. Thus the realization that the eare both negative and positive polarities of where ones Venus and their Mars are in their natal chart. I have an Aries Venus and a Gemini Mars, two masculine signs in negaive polarity. I'm not what is called an "Alpha type male"
144 different combnations.... Freud is spinning....

As stated at the beginning of my answer, the whole tone of both charts need evaluation before we can even think about delineating an aspect which incorporates all of our senses. What phase relationships exist between the two planets being analysed with both charts? This will give us an idea of each individuals attitude to the planets involved etc. In the case of Venus/Mars as you asked about; whose planet has more strength/dignity? And specifically in the case of the bi-quintile, which can progressively needs adjustment at the quincunx aspect, which of the two charts show more stress/adjustment issues? Any astrologer who has the perceived ability to be able to judge synastry in a competent manner, whilst utilising such aspects as the bi-quintile I would expect not to have to resort to the use of textbook descriptions. Surely if we are at a reasonable level in our astrology, the stimulation of a creative process is what it's all about; if that is not enough that we need text book interpretations we might as well give up in our endeavours.

 

[piercethevale]

I mentioned Mary because she is a scholar and really quite well known. I read the link that you gave, but to me it really doesn't make any sense.
Please note that you ascribe Aries to C sharp, Cancer to E sharp and Aquarius to B sharp; the latter two you state as being hypothetical/non-existent. Look at the key of c sharp major, and you will find both an E sharp and a B sharp [key with 7 sharps]. You also ascribe Gemini to D sharp, which only occurs in a key signature as a minor scale; hardly appropriate for Gemini [ and also contains the non-existent E sharp]. Maybe you can explain.

I'm not a musician. The theory I've proposed just solves a few questions, but they are solutions that no one else has ever come up with an answer before. That it is in synch with what Mani wrote and the bas reliefs of him kneeling before the sky with five stars to one side and seven to the other, and is based on what Rabbi Dobin stated in his book on Kabbalistic Astrology, and my personal experiences from the practice of yoga and meditation [I am a Sishya of the Bij, OM, it is my only guru, my true, one and only, Satguru. I know that the Bij is in harmony with the Key of B, and if the "Force of God comes from the direction of Capricorn Aquarius, as Rabbi Dobin stated in his book, then what I have have presented is in harmony with all of that.... provided that my theory that the two "phantom" notes, I.e. missing notes, B# and E#, should be, and must be, accounted for. That resulted from that theory produced what it did, convinced me. I'm not saying that I'm correct, only that it sure fits the puzzle, and so much more.
I've been off line awhile, as I have been moving so much, both of my laptops went kaput the same week, I just, this morning, purchased a Chromebook, and am presently trying to catch up with a couple of months worth of correspondence... so I don't know if I posted a link to another theory that has a thread about it that is titled, "A Runic Explanation of the Zodiac" or not? You might find it to be very interesting. The premise is that each element is one of three types, Above the Earth, On the Earth, and Below the Earth. For example Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces and Aries, are all elements Above the Earth. Pisces doesn't rule the lakes and streams, that is of Cancer as Cancer is all Water On the Earth, Scorpio all water Below the Earth. Pisces is Water Above the Earth, I.e. the rain. Aquarius is Air Above the Earth, which carries the rains...and hence WHY...WHY Aquarius is known as "The Water Bearer", though it be an Air Sign. It should lead to the proof that astrology is not only a science but actually is "The Mother of all science", just as Dane Rudhyar said would one day be recognized.
There's a lot more to read about in that thread. Do a search for it under the title I gave you as authored by me, if you are interested in reading more about this. I would do that for you but I'm at the end of a long period of over 24 hours since I last slept and have yet to do a bit more on this computer before I sleep. ...or maybe I have already provide the link here in this thread?
Anyways... I'll get back to this discussion at some other time.
Thank you for your contributions and insight.
Cheers, ptv.

 

[piercethevale]

Well, I've been absent from the internet for almost a couple of months, due to having lost two laptops, not having the resources to replace them until this morning, and look at all that has transpired since my last post early in June!
July 16th is looming nigh and...my oh my, look at the situation in Washington D.C. at present.
Biden is about all but finished... {"Stick a fork in Him, He's done...!] and he might just drop out of the race, and He may even resign, this coming week... maybe even on the very date of Pluto's natal return in retrograde....!!
Regardless... it sure is some kind of appropriate coincidence, if nothing else...eh?

 

[John Thompson]

Well, I've been absent from the internet for almost a couple of months, due to having lost two laptops, not having the resources to replace them until this morning, and look at all that has transpired since my last post early in June!
July 16th is looming nigh and...my oh my, look at the situation in Washington D.C. at present.
Biden is about all but finished... {"Stick a fork in Him, He's done...!] and he might just drop out of the race, and He may even resign, this coming week... maybe even on the very date of Pluto's natal return in retrograde....!!
Regardless... it sure is some kind of appropriate coincidence, if nothing else...eh?

It's now late on the 15th, and I'd said to your dear self that I'd also pinpointed the 16th as a crisis point for British monarchy. This afternoon, the King and Queen had a security scare and was ushered into a hotel, at the same time headlines were saying 'All Hell breaks loose', with the King demanding his brother Andrew vacates 'Royal Lodge'. Nigel Farage is also apparently scooting over to the US to be with Trump; OUCH!

 

[piercethevale]

As I wrote above in post #18, based on the precession rate of 25,740 years that Pluto's natal return would then have been this past Saturday at just past 10 p.m. EDST, and noted that the N. Node on that date was in the 11th degree of Aries and that the Sabian Symbol for the 11th degree is ''A RULER OF A NATION". Considering that there was an assassination attempt upon Donald Trump that occurred just a little less that four hours earlier, I.e. at 6:11 p.m. EDST and that Saturn in retrograde transit at that moment was at 19* 16' and that the Part of Catastrophe derived from the USA's natal chart is at 17* 44' and the Sidereal precession adjusted point at 21* 15', then Saturn was near exactly conj. the midpoint between the two figures, and please recall the Sabian Symbol for the USA's Part of Catastrophe (Ibid.)
"PISCES 18°: IN A GIGANTIC TENT, VILLAGERS WITNESS A SPECTACULAR PERFORMANCE.

KEYNOTE: The collective appeal of a well-staged and exciting display of skill and/or oratory."

It may also be of some interest that the Part of Assassination, that uses the formula of Mars + Neptune - Uranus [which I'm not experienced much with and is one of three such labeled Parts, but the only one that doesn't use the natal Asc. as the personal point and Parts that use other than the Asc. for the personal point I find to be suspect for natal use and are likely
only relevant to horary charts] derived from Trump's natal chart is at 14* 43' 29" and that the chart for the reported time of the attempt at 6:11 p.m. p.m. EDST , cast for the locale, has an Asc. at 15* 15'.
...and the 16th of July has arrived, it is 1:30 a.m. here in Reno, Nevada at this very moment.
Late Edit, July 16, 2024. Above, I mistakenly wrote the Sidereal adjusted location of Pluto instead of that for the Part of Catastrophe as in regard to Saturn's present transit. I have corrected the mistake. My apologies for any confusion it resulted in.

 

[piercethevale]

It's now late on the 15th, and I'd said to your dear self that I'd also pinpointed the 16th as a crisis point for British monarchy. This afternoon, the King and Queen had a security scare and was ushered into a hotel, at the same time headlines were saying 'All Hell breaks loose', with the King demanding his brother Andrew vacates 'Royal Lodge'. Nigel Farage is also apparently scooting over to the US to be with Trump; OUCH!

Fascinating.
Thank you for sharing this information.

 

[piercethevale]

I mentioned Mary because she is a scholar and really quite well known. I read the link that you gave, but to me it really doesn't make any sense.
Please note that you ascribe Aries to C sharp, Cancer to E sharp and Aquarius to B sharp; the latter two you state as being hypothetical/non-existent. Look at the key of c sharp major, and you will find both an E sharp and a B sharp [key with 7 sharps]. You also ascribe Gemini to D sharp, which only occurs in a key signature as a minor scale; hardly appropriate for Gemini [ and also contains the non-existent E sharp]. Maybe you can explain.

I have to question just how in the heck can two non-existent notes, I.e. E# and B#, become existent? I did take a course in "Strings" for two semesters in junior high school, and I was able to read music back then. When I was 19 I was given a banjo and I had forgotten how to read music by that time, but I became fairly competent playing by ear, I learned many chords, and become rather competent with the Scruggs style of playing, It was a guitarist for a local band in Northern California, that couldn't read music either, but knew of a method he called the "box method" of playing and it is a technique that allows one to find the key a song is being played in. The "box" is a pattern that remains the same, up and down the neck, once one finds that particular key a song is being played in.
I am a friend of Randy Forrester, the one time keyboardist for Elvin Bishop and Eddie Money, he is also a CPA and does my taxes every year. I suppose I might get him to explain this to me? On the entire keyboard of a piano, there are no E# and B# keys.
My father and his youngest brother had a "Doo ***" band back in the late 1950's through the early 60's. They had 7 single records published, they opened for Aretha Franklin, in 1961, at the Pan Pacific Auditorium. He would certainly have an argument with what you've stated, but he passed away in 1997, and his brother in 2001.
They were the Altones [For Al and Tony Mastry, my father was Tony] They never made a dime for all their effort. They wrote the music for a song that the producers chose to have a 17 year old youngster sing, as they wanted someone that teenagers would relate to. That song is known as "Heart of Mine" and Connie Francis wanted to cover it, which would have set them for life, but their manager was a fellow by the name of Jack Gerrard and Jack was one of the foremost names associated with the "Payolla" scandal, and even though Jack never paid any D.J.'s to play their music, they became untouchable as a result... they were ruined.
The didn't trademark the name of their band, and lost it to a Black vocal group, and then took the name, Beverly Hills Painters... as they both were Painters by trade, my father the foreman painter for the Beverly Hills Hotel and later, under the same owne, at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. My uncle Albert, worked under him for a time and then became the foreman painter at the Beverly Hilton Hotel.
Here's one of the YouTube posts [there are at least a half a dozen of this particular tune, it was re-released in 1968 under a different label. It's titled "I know Why" and my uncle Al sings the lead while my father does the falsetto. It' is rather good. .
Also, as you brought up "septiles" a most obscure and little understood aspect {Marc Edmond Jones called it "an aspect of fatality", and Rudhyar wrote a bit about it in his last published book that he co-authored with his 4th, and last, wife, Leyla Rael, "Astrological Aspects, A Process Oriented Approach" I don't know if you are aware of the book I managed to get published, now out of print and being suppressed, "A Template For the Time, The Astrological Birth Chart of Jesus" Hidden Mysteries, TGS Publishing, Frankston Texas? {Yes, I did produce the birth chart, using the date that the late American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce gave and my own theory that Pluto had to have been conj. the ascendant. I gave three radio interviews on this in the 00's. The last interview was on the Rick Barber radio program, an hour long explanation of the find, by their invitation. It was on A.M radio, KOA, Devenver, Colorado, on December 22, 2005. Note that Pluto was demoted during the very next convention of the Astronomers Union.
The find is the reason I joined this forum in 2007, but I didn't start writing about it until six months after the book was published, on March 3, 2008. By doing so I voided the contract I have with my publisher, allowing him to keep all profits. I realized that unless I did go online and write about the find that it was not going to become known of as the publisher did no promotion of the material. The owner of the publishing company passed away si9nce then and the new owners aren't printing it, even though I sent them a revised manuscript, contain much new information and despite the fact that any profits, all profits, made on the book is theirs to keep.
In the natal chart there is a septile matrix, in which the Asc./Moon conjunction then has a three planets completing four out of the seven points of a Grand Septile and the chart for the Crucifixion[32 years and 14 days after the birth] the vacant three points are occupied, which occurred on the Monday following that first "Easter Sunday"
Why I titled the book as it is, is that it is a "Template" to use to understand how true Astrological natal analysis should be conducted. A n Astrological "Rosetta Stone", if I may be so bold as to use such a term? Here's the link: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/index.php?threads/birth-chart-of-jesus.13271/

 

[piercethevale]

...also, a thirty five minute long synopsis on the book.

 

[piercethevale]

I mentioned Mary because she is a scholar and really quite well known. I read the link that you gave, but to me it really doesn't make any sense.
Please note that you ascribe Aries to C sharp, Cancer to E sharp and Aquarius to B sharp; the latter two you state as being hypothetical/non-existent. Look at the key of c sharp major, and you will find both an E sharp and a B sharp [key with 7 sharps]. You also ascribe Gemini to D sharp, which only occurs in a key signature as a minor scale; hardly appropriate for Gemini [ and also contains the non-existent E sharp]. Maybe you can explain.

On further reflection...
I basically get the gist of what you have written about regarding these scales. That the next step from the E is F and that, in a sense, it can then be regarded as being an E#. But, what I'm getting at is that the entire application to the zodiac has to be done through a Grand Semi-Septile matrix, that is to say that there should be a division of the 360 degrees by a factor of 14 and not 12... it is merely my ignorance of musical theory, my lack of education, that inhibits me from explaining it properly.
Thank you for your patience and I especially thank you for your interest, participation, and your educated responses.

 

[piercethevale]

So, Biden has dropped out of the race, Trump survived an assassination attempt and graciously accepted the Republican Partys' nomination, and picked a fine young man, Vance, as his running mate, and all in the past week.
Now, THAT was a week of national transformation.
If Trump can stay alive and healthy until November, by all rights and all that is righteous, He will be president of the United States again. Even the least experienced astrologer can forecast the disaster that the Democrat Party has created for itself... they have no one to blame for it other than themselves.
I didn't vote for Trump in either election. I gave over $750 to Bernie Sanders campaign in 2016... got receipts for only half of that amount... the Party stole the rest, I ended up voting Libertarian that year.
I ended up not voting at all in 2020, other than in the primaries, as for the reason I was living in California and it would have been a waste of my time to go vote that day... they had done away with the neighborhood polling location and moved it halfway across town, and everyone knew that Biden was going to carry the State... "by hook or by CROOK!", Biden was, and did, carry the State in 2020... and a number of other States as well.

The "Hook and the Crook" shouldn't be a factor in 2024... it would be political suicide if either should appear again this time around.
I hope that Donald Trump can save our nation, save our republic, and may God help him to do so, and bless Him if he earnestly tries.

 

[piercethevale]

So showtime ran a movie this morn called Bobby. Not knowing what it is about I tuned in a few minutes and stayed the entire flick.
It is about Robert {Bobby} J. Kennedy on the day He was assassinated in 1968. It is about the 40 hours prior, and up to, the shooting and it centers on the old, now gone, Ambassador Hotel, The Home of the original Coconut Grove. I had forgotten that Emilio Estevez had produced that movie back in 2006.
How timely is that? Surely Showtime scheduled the playing of this movie over a month ago and how sickenly ironic?

Excellent movie by the way. Ms Winsted is gorgeous, and it has a stellar cast all around.

 

[piercethevale]

Keep in mind that due to Pluto's exceptionally slow progress through the Zodiac that this "Natal Return" is pretty much a long term affair. I merely pointed to what I believed would be of the most significant of times. r.e. the return in retrograde.
As some members are claiming that they do not see Trump returning to the Oval Office, astrologically, then December 30-31st looms even larger than I initially considered. After all, it will be the "FINAL natal return" during that time and immediately after [or during?] the electoral college vote.
At this time Donald appears to be such a "shoe -in" that the only way I can see the Democrats keeping him out of office is to pull something so underhanded as to be nearly unimaginable... and that includes another assassination attempt.
If something as such should occur what will transpire come immediately after, will make that January 6th commotion appear as like a Boy Scout rally, in comparison.... IMHO, of course.
I'm not advocating, I'm merely hypothesizing... that is, "I'm just sayin' "
I would pay particular attention to any Astrological Parts derived from the natal chart of the USA that have Pluto as the "Significator" and, particularly, as the "Trigger" that become active by planetary transit this year into early the next.

I went ahead and checked out all the transits for the planets beyond the realm of Lucifer's influence [beyond the asteroid belt, I.e Jupiter through, and including, Pluto] and I found nothing that those planets will conjunct regarding the aforementioned Astrological Parts involving Pluto.
However... I did find that the True North Node will conj. the sidereal adjusted natal "Part of Influence" aka "Part of Magnetism" which is derived from the formula Asc. + Pluto - Moon but is an Astrological Part which I have never personally confirmed as to having the correct title.
I have that Part listed at 02* 13' 52" in my list of Astrological Parts for the USA natal chart [at this link: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/for...or-the-usa-zero-hour-july-4-1776-chart.54760/ ] and the sidereal adjusted position should be right around + 3* 28' - 29' [you all can figure out the exact coordinates for yourselves, I'm a bit burnt out dealing with math at this time] This conjunction will occur on November 5th - 6th, 2024... spot on the date of the election.... so, it could be of significant interest... or not... as we are considering a Node to be of influence here on an Astrological Part... but worth a "WATCH" ...as to what that Astrological Part truly influences is worth some conjecture. As I have found that the inner influence, that is the one closer to the Sun, when it is in the position of being the "Trigger" to be an influence that works towards the rectification of matters and as this involves the Moon [emotions] triggering 'transformation", that it should occur right on the date of the election to be quite interesting if not also significant?

The other transit of interest to occur between now and the end of this year is that of Lilith conjunct the Part of Interaction, derived from Asc. + Sun - Pluto, and is also another Astrological Part that I have never personally confirmed to have an appropriate title. It is listed in my list of Astrological Parts derived from the USA's natal chart at 06* :Libra: 34' 05" and sidereal precession adjusted that will occur around September 28th-29th, this year.
Lilith will also conjunct the Part derived from Asc. + Mercury - Pluto, listed at 18* 26' 13", sidereal adjusted from Jan 4th to the 22nd, 2025 , [an approximation, give or take a day either way. The exact conjunction around the 13th of January]. I have tentatively labeled that Part with the title of "Transformation of Others Minds", and it surely has something to do with that realm of things. As the Planet Pluto is the "Trigger" in this instance, Lilith conjunct this Part cannot be something to look forward to as bringing us anything welcome.

I once asked my clairvoyant friend, Clarisse Conner, as to how best picture Lilith's influence and She described it as 'Being like that part of a tornado, a funnel cloud, that touches the ground."
The reverse formula Asc. + Pluto - Mercury is listed at 24* 32' 53" of which Lilith, sidereal adjusted, will conj. that Part around the second week of March next year.

All in all , it should make for an interesting "Watch Party" these coming months.
Pray for Peace.... ptv

 

[piercethevale]

I erred as to the above in stating that Lilith will be conj. the position for the sidereal precession adjusted Part of Interaction will be on approx. September 1st. The correct estimation is September 28th-29th. I corrected the post.
In addition, I wish to comment on this Astrological Part and the name "Interaction" it has been given.
As it is derived from the formula Asc. + Sun - Pluto, and that the Part derived from the formula Asc. + Mars - Pluto is a Part of Rage/War ["Rage" being more appropriate to a natal chart and "War" to that of the mundane] I have to think that the former formula produces something nearly equally as nasty, or potentially so. Every Part has its good side, I like to think, depending on how advanced, I.e. spiritually evolved, the individual in question is.
In the natal chart I have produced, contend, and am convinced is the chart for Jesus/Yeshua the Nazarene, you'll find that the Part of Rage is conj. his natal Mars and also his Part of Ideal Love [Asc. + Neptune - Venus] Picture that. His idea of waging rage upon someone was one with his notion of bestowing ideal love upon them.

These Astrological Parts work according to the temperament of the individual and in the case of a mundane chart it is the temperament of society that wields the power of that Part/Lot.
There are some astrologers that are so convinced that Trump won't take the Oval Office next year [I've yet to look into that myself... I was hoping to avoid having to make any such predictions this time around. I may just stay out of that altogether, anyways.] that I am a bit concerned as to what might transpire between now and next February.

But, taking into consideration as to what I mentioned earlier about Edgar Cayce's prediction as to another civil war in the U.S.A. and Uranus' upcoming return.... they could be very well correct in their predictions.
I hope they're wrong.

 

[piercethevale]

Another matter of watch interest is when the Moon's N. Node will be in the 3rd degree of Aries. That will happen [as to the "True" Node] this December 3rd through the 22nd.
Why I find this particular degree to be of such interest is that it is also the location of Donald Trump's Part of Hidden Identity, aka, Part of Oration... and it was the primary reason for me to predict that Trump would not only receive the Republican Partys' nomination but would also go on to win in November of 2016... and I made that prediction In January of 2016, immediately after my discovering that it was indeed the location for that Astrological Part of his. [At the time the political "pundits" were giving Trump only a 2% chance of even securing the Partys' nomination]
The Sabian Symbol for the 3rd degree of Aries is: [ibid.]
"
ARIES 3°: THE CAMEO PROFILE OF A MAN, SUGGESTING THE SHAPE OF HIS COUNTRY.

KEYNOTE: The sustaining power of the Whole, as the individual identifies themselves with It’s life.

Having become objectively aware of their nature and basic humanity, the individualizing person finds power and inner security in realizing their essential identity with the section of the universe in which they operate. They and it seem to the consciousness united in a cosmic-planetary process - in a "participation mystique." Metaphysically expressed, this is the concept of the identity of Atman and Brahman. In another sense, through the ability to identify themselves with the complex of life activities surrounding them, the individual person can become truly, not only an image and representation of the Whole of their natal environment (local, planetary and perhaps eventually cosmic), but an agent through whom the Whole may express itself in an act of creative resonance and outpouring. This is the avatar ideal — the ideal of a "transpersonal" life and consciousness totally consecrated to and directed by a divine Power. This Power can also be conceived as the archetypal Self, the Christ-principle as it operates in and through an individual person and destiny who have become its outward manifestation in order to meet a collective human need.

The concept of the formal-structural identity of the universal macrocosm and the human microcosm is a very important one, as it manifests itself at many levels. It provided an inner sense of security and harmonic strength to archaic man. To the modern individual assailed by surface evidence of meaninglessness and futility it gives a feeling of participation in the vast tide of evolution. It is the answer to the tragic sense of alienation so prevalent today.

This symbol characterizes the third stage of the first five-fold sequence of phases: the stage of PARTICIPATION IN A GREATER LIFE."
What a Sabian Symbol for a politician to have as his Part of Oration...!!
When He speaks people seem in Him their United States of America.
It is the prime reason why He was elected in 2016, that He probably was elected in 2020, and that He should again be elected in 2024.
I think that He may well be the most popular president since George himself was in office... but "HATERS BE HATERS NO MATTER WHAT", 'ya know?
As the N. Node will be in close proximity in time for the election, in an applying transit, I think that Trumps' popularity could swell to new heights...
Whether or not it shall be an "honest election" remains to be seen.
ptv

 

[piercethevale]

.
I've been so busy just trying to get by, day to day, here in Reno that I haven't spent very much time with astrology this year and this thread is the major exception as I felt I just had to write something about it, seeing that it is a once in 248 year occurence to have a Pluto natal return.Yesterday it came to mind that we are presently in the period of time when the North Node of the Moon is in that 3rd degree of Aries I mentioned above. ...and have been for a couple of weeks now. Man, how time flew by. I was thinking that the event was still ahead of us...as for how preoccupied I've been. [I've been made an offer to share a house in Northern Calif. and am anticipating moving there after the first of the year. I was going to do so this month but decided to wait until after the holidays. Not an excuse but an explanation as to why, and just how much, I am preoccupied at the present.]
Upon realizing the N. Nodes present transit I thought that I had better look at what else is going on astrologically at this time, especially so as i haven't gotten back to this thread since Trump won the election. [Like I wrote above, I was pretty confident that he would, barring any cheating this time around... and the wailing and the gnashing of teeth immediately followed... and who didn't expect that?]
Looking over the pdf ephemeris at astrodienst I was a bit surprised, and also ashamed of myself, for not having remembered, and for not further investigating, the retrograde activity of Mars during this time which began on December 6th.

Some 25 years ago I came up with a theory that I've demonstrated here at this forum, and others, about the retrograde activity of the planets and how they interact with the Sabian symbols.





This has to do with current activity as to the Tropical Zodiac and their degree symbols and thus no sidereal adjustment is necessary in this, proposed, technique. A technique that has yet to be determined to be valid but it has been shown to be most worthy of consideration. As these influences are affecting all of humanity, world wide, and that the Nodes are relative to the "at large" activities, and attitudes, of society they aren't discerned so readily . They can be found to be particularly relative to any one individual nation, when taken in context to the current state of that particular nation, and yet still remain relative to the world wide society of all humanity.



It's been quite some time since I have performed one of these retrograde analyses, and I'm not going to check back for reference to make sure that I'm using the same terms I coined, or came up with, so long ago, but if I do recall correctly the three phases of a planet in retrograde, i.e the point of initial retrograde motion, the point of the return to direct motion, and thirdly, the final return, I identify as "the Impasse", "the Trigger", and "the Release".

At the point of Impasse one should look to what the Sabian symbol is for the degree the observed Planet is within and regard that symbolism as the precept that particular planet cannot presently proceed beyond as there is something blocking the influence of that planet, relative to that Zodiacal degrees Sabian Symbolism, from bestowing the resultant affect upon all of humanity The North Node further emphasizes, through the Sabian symbolism found for its Zodiacal degree, why that is happening. What is needed to break through that impasse is retrieved by the retrograde planet back at the point of where that direct motion will take place. [i.e. the "Trigger"]

I'm not at all certain that this technique I'm using is entirely valid, but I think the better part of it certainly is...and maybe I do have the right take on the entire process, but perhaps I have not yet perceived an compiled all of the process? T

The significant matter of this event is that the Sabian Symbols, I found, involved in the three phases coupled with the fact that this is beginning at the very time that Pluto is within a one degree orb to an exact sidereal adjusted conjunction to the position it was in at the birth of the United States, along with Pluto being, the Planet of Transformation, Trump, having been re-elected president and his vowing to transform the nation, the transiting N.Node being conjunct the 3rd deg. of Aries and that degree and its Sabian Symbol being so significant to president Trump, that transiting Mars began its retrograde motion in the same Tropical degree as the natal N. Node of the United States, i.e. the 7th of Leo, that Trump has vowed to restore spiritual values that this nation was founded upon, and that the Sabian Symbol for the 7th degree of Leo is so, 'spot on", relative to those spiritual values, that when all taken together as a whole that there has surely got to be something of profound implications about to transpire here in the U.S.A.

So much more to write concerning this, but it is going on mid-night here in Reno, and I have much to do yet before I sleep.So, I'm just going to post the Sabian symbol for the 7th degree of Leo, for those of you unfamiliar with it and those that need a refresher, so as to emphasize the spiritual significance it has regarding the birth of my nation, a nation that evolved from the colonies created for the refugees of religious persecution in Europe, e.g. the Quakers, the Puritans, the Baptists, the Mennonites, the Evangelicals, the Pentacostals, et al. ...and non Christian beliefs as well.

The 7th degree of Leo [...which also just happens to be the location of my natal S. Node, and was the natal N. Node of my late yogi friend, Suryakant, and member Phoenix Venus' M.C. [so highly significant a Zodiacal degree to me, as well] [ibid.]

"LEO 7°: THE CONSTELLATIONS OF STARS SHINE BRILLIANTLY IN THE NIGHT SKY.

KEYNOTE: The power of basic spiritual values which refer to man's common humanity and to all enduring archetypes.

The experience of the night sky with its multitude of stars, especially brilliant in all the countries from which astrology came, is just as basic and archetypal an experience as that of sunrise, full moon and seasonal changes. Every people on this Earth has developed the concept of constellations, probably because of a need to find order in existence and to personalize everything that could be given a permanent form. Such personalizations can be called 'psychic projections', but the projection concept should be worked out both ways. If man projects his basic human nature upon the star-filled night sky, is it not just as logical to say that the universe projects its own forever-evolving patterns of order upon human nature? In either case we deal with archetypal factors which endure through a long series of generations.

This second stage symbol once more stands in perfect contrast to the preceding one. The nearly unchanging patterns of star groups are opposed to the sequence of ever-changing fashions and social ideals. The Keyword here is PERMANENCE."



So, Mars has to backtrack and return to acquire the energy from a Divine precept it passed through a few weeks ago in order to proceed past the "Impasse", and that impasse concerns that permanent archetype, what it is, what all it entails, maybe we have to get together and agree to what its true identity is and agree to hold fast to it, or at least more fast than we have been doing recently... something seems to have been lost, or misplaced, or forgotten... pretty much what president Trump has been saying for quite sometime...



Stay tuned, to be continued, more to follow, you better believe it, keep the faith.

ptv

.

The chart for the moment of mars going retrograde.

.

 

[piercethevale]

Hello again.
I leave my television on at night here in this old Reno hotel with the volume down low so as to provide a bit of "white noise" to counter all the noise from the karoke bar downstairs that often doesn't close until 4 a.m.
I awoke to find an ad on the TV for a newly minted silver bullion coin called, if I recall correctly, the double Silver Eagle. The announcer touted the design on the reverse as being symbolic of the archetype of the American family.
The archetype of the American family...!!! Wow...!
It immediately came to me... WHY NOT...!?!?
The Sabian symbolism of the 7th degree of Leo can very well be taken to mean is such a concept. It doesn't necesessarily have to mean a spiritual archetype, that is to say a "Messiah", a "Buddha", an incarnation of Krishna, a satguru of any particular belief system [religion]. It seems that it can also be representative of any ideal archetype... yet still spiritually oriented as, afterall, these are Divine precepts that the Sabian Symbols are representative of.
Donald Trump has consistently championed spiritually oriented family values.
The "American Dream" is also an archetype... that is to say the true blue American Dream. To me that dream is a loving married couple, i.e. a husband and wife, honest and reliable employment, an honest wage, a stable economy, and always an opportunity to achieve prosperity.
Yes... WHY NOT?
Mars will return to direct motion on February 23, 2025. It ill begin that return in the 18th degree of Cancer. That degrees Sabian Symbol represents the Divine precept that Mars must imbue itself with in order to break that impasse at the 7th degree of Leo. [Keep in mind that this is all "theory"] [ibid.]
"
CANCER 18°: A HEN SCRATCHING THE GROUND TO FIND NOURISHMENT FOR HER PROGENY.

KEYNOTE: The practical concern with everyday nourishment necessary to sustain one's outreaching activities.

Every mother is originally responsible for the feeding of her progeny, and all the activities into which a person has poured his energy are his symbolic children. He has to feed them with social substance gathered from 'the ground' of his community, and to watch with concern over their unfoldment. The tender stem consolidates into the tree trunk, the chicken into the hen, the infant into the theoretically self-reliant and socially wise adult.

This third stage of the twenty-second five-fold sequence shows the results of the two previous stages. Seed, germ and the growing plant requiring the chemicals of the soil for its daily growth form a clear sequence. What is at stake here is the FULFILLING OF LIFE'S RESPONSIBILITIES."

WOW...!!! I'll be danged if this doesn't make perfect sense.
To reestablish the archetype nourishment must be provided to sustain it. I call your attention to Dane's words, "to feed them with social substance gathered from 'the ground' of his community".

I meant to mention earlier that I'm observing both the "mean" and the "true" nodes in this exercise. I have been holding fast to using the "true" Node for some years now, but I've never been 100% convinced that it is the correct form to use, though it has certainly seemed to be most all the time. In this present instance, I'm seeing a possibility that the mean Node may be more relevant. Perhaps one is more appropriate to natal charts an the other to those of the mundane and possibly horary too, but I'm not studied horary and am only conjecturing here.

The "True" N. Node at the timer of the return to direct motion will be in the 28th degree of Pisces. The "Mean" N. Node will be in the 29th degree of Pisces.
[ibid.]
"
PISCES 28°: A FERTILE GARDEN UNDER THE FULL MOON REVEALS A VARIETY OF FULL-GROWN VEGETABLES.

KEYNOTE: The full satisfaction of the individual's basic needs.

This symbol would seem a duplication of the preceding one, but if it is related to the first of this five-fold series (Phase 356) it’s meaning becomes clear. What is stressed now is not the full moon itself or its light, but the moon's power to call forth the instinctive urge for growth; many things respond in many different ways. The symbol refers to a typical garden, not to a field. Such a garden contains a variety of plants, herbs and vegetables grown specifically to fill an equal variety of human needs and tastes.

In this sense the third symbol of this seventy-second sequence combines the meanings of the first two. It is a symbol of ABUNDANCE, an abundance fitted to individualized requirements and wants."

Well, that certainly supplies the sustenance.
...and yet the symbolism for the "Mean" N. Node seems appropriate too, in that we are such a diversified nation of so many from different ancestral cultures. See what you think?
[ibid.]
"
PISCES 29°: LIGHT BREAKING INTO MANY COLORS THROUGH A PRISM.

KEYNOTE: The analytical power of the mind necessary for the formulation of life processes in their many aspects.

Cycles of existence begin in unity and end in what I have called 'multi-unity'. At the stage of consummation the many individual differences are totaled; they constitute a sum. Within that sum — a unified total — the inevitability of the future process of differentiation is implied, because every cycle leaves a mass of waste products slowly returning to the unconscious state of chemical matter, of 'humus'. What the symbol tells us is that unity will always break again into multiplicity. The 'prism' is always there. There is no absolute unity; if anything could be called 'absolute' it is the relationship between the One and the Many.

This fourth stage symbol of the concluding five-fold sequence of phases points to the fundamental type of operation in all modes of existence. The most beautiful and seemingly everlasting experience of unity will in time be superseded by the need to attend to a multiplicity of details. Existence implies DIFFERENTIATION."

I'll get back to this thread asap... I'm still recovering from a very severe cold and I might have to seek medical attention, as I'm beginning to wonder if I have developed pneumonia? I guess it "comes with the territory", that is of living in a low rent, transient type, hotel... Oh the humanity....

The chart o the moment Mars returns to direct motion