Views on retrogradation

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Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

In the West: all authorities have considered that rx weakens the influence of planets, or that benefics are weakened and malefics strengthened (this latter idea especially found among the Islamic transitional-era authors)

In the East (India): Parasara and all of the Vedic authorities prior to the 10th century AD, considered rx to increase the influence of all planets; Parasar taught that a planet in rx is to be considered the same as a planet in its exaltation.
Over the past 1000 years, this attitude has largely continued, although several later authorities (perhaps influenced by Tajika astrologers, who brought Western style Islamic astrology into India during the Moslem period in India) taught that rx weakens planets in general, and tends to bring out more disruptive influences in the malefics.

Me? I once completely followed the consistent Western concept that rx weakens influences, for good or ill. Over the past several years, I must now say: I don't know; certainly I am not as sure of the weakening influence as I once was.

I know this: when a planet is rx, it is at a closer position (astonomically closer) to the Earth, than when it (the planet) is in acceleration, and moving toward the Sun (ie heading in the direction of combustion) This is an astronomical fact: could it be that since the planet is close to the Earth when it is rx, it does indeed have a greater influence (like the early Vedic adepts said)??

Good question...I just don't know as yet (so, I still tend to consider the rx state a weakening one-but I might well be mistaken in this, and my allegiance to this concept is getting weaker by the year)
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

Retro means Vakri derived from Vakra means curv. Now when planet is on the curv of sun for us is known as Vakri (Retro.). Planets related to different House and ownership, they behave. Now, Vakri Planets they normally work like catalyst, and in certain cases they give indication of the behavior of Jatak (person). Such as in certain case (if linked with 5th house) of Jup. (R) means person has born to clear off his/her purv janm (previous birth) debts, can be positive as well can be negative too. In different conditions planets will guide their purpose.
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

In the East (India): Parasara and all of the Vedic authorities prior to the 10th century AD, considered rx to increase the influence of all planets; Parasar taught that a planet in rx is to be considered the same as a planet in its exaltation.


Interesting. There may be something to that as well in horary; RX applications )one signifcator RX and the other direct, applying to each other) cause things to happen more quickly, or suddenly, than normal direct applications of significators.
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

“Every planet that is retrograde sheweth slownesse.” wrote William Lilly who then categorizes a retrograde planet as having an accidental debility rating of -5 points.

However in many of Lilly's examples, retrograde planets do not always show debilitated or negative outcomes – that's because although theoretically Lilly considers retrogradation not a good thing due to the regular motion of the planet being impeded - hence the accidental debility rating of -5 points - nevertheless the outcome is entirely dependent on the particular significations of the planet in the particular chart


As you have said Anachiel, conversely - there are circumstances when Lilly interprets events happening quickly and unexpectedly as for example:
Interesting. There may be something to that as well in horary; RX applications one signifcator RX and the other direct, applying to each other cause things to happen more quickly, or suddenly, than normal direct applications of significators.

Lilly's examples include ones where Retrograde planets can signify negative outcomes such as the return of an illness.

Lilly gives examples of retrograde planets with positive outcomes as well - as in for example, the return of lost or stolen possessions, the return of people from a journey, the return of sailing ships, the return of missing animals, the return of someone who has been imprisoned, the return to health after illness and the return of a loved one :smile:
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

Well, lets test out the Vedic version.

Anyone have a retrograde planet they'd like to dissect for the class?
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

Well, Saturn is rx in Virgo in my natal 1st house; looking back over my life, Saturn-mostly as a benefic influence-has played the most decided role of any planet in my natal chart, followed closely by Uranus (in Cancer, direct, in the 11th house)
Neptune is in my second house, in Libra, and retrograde; Neptune in the 2nd can mean earning one's living (money) from highly unusual activities and occuptations; Neptune also can mean stron occult connections; in my life I have always been closely connected with esoteric pursuits and unquestionably I have earned most of my living from unusual pursuits (homeopathic medicine for one!) Here two retrograde planets, Saturn and Neptune, have proven themselves very active and, mostly benefic as well!!
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

I have Mars in the 9th in Aries retrograde. Looking at the 9th House affairs in my life, I'd say it's pretty useless. I haven't been on any distant travels, I haven't furthered my education, I'm not particularly religious.

I'm honestly having a hard time seeing how Mars here is doing me any good.
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

I have according to vedic, retrograde jupiter in capricorn in the 6th

I was a star runner in high school, one of the top 20 in the country. Nowadays however, I haven't the spirit for it, I do however, have a lot of internal energy and am pretty dang healthy considering what I've been through in my life so far.

My vedic chart below .... (sorry forgot the uploading part. . .wait) EDITLOL Ah there it is. : D
 

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Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

I have Mars in the 9th in Aries retrograde. Looking at the 9th House affairs in my life, I'd say it's pretty useless. I haven't been on any distant travels, I haven't furthered my education, I'm not particularly religious.

I'm honestly having a hard time seeing how Mars here is doing me any good.

Often I've heard retrogrades described as being "magnetic" and "karmic" so perhaps inherently you have a wide, open-minded worldview. Also, perhaps since mars is in aries, submiting your education to an authority system is not easy for you to grasp yet. Perhaps you have always had wide and varied interests in many places and things, also you probably come off as someone like that, someone way more educated than you actually are! : D
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

Well, Saturn is rx in Virgo in my natal 1st house;

very cool dr. farr because I just did someones vedic chart last week who was also a saturn in virgo in the first house, who is a homeopath AND an osteopath, AND an m.d (so much school I can't believe!)

She has rx merc in cancer in the 10th as well. Sun in cancer as well (extra healing powers I guessed)

She has moon, saturn and neptune conj (combust actually) in the first house in virgo!
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

I have Mars in the 9th in Aries retrograde. Looking at the 9th House affairs in my life, I'd say it's pretty useless. I haven't been on any distant travels, I haven't furthered my education, I'm not particularly religious.

I'm honestly having a hard time seeing how Mars here is doing me any good.

What degree is Mars in?
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

hi Dr Farr - -

saturn is termed as a natural malefic ...and being RX its equal to exalation -- -so in this case shall we see as the ascendant wise benefic and malefic before seeing the results and the house it is placed ..as malefic and that too this strong should be good or bad :unsure:

rgds
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

Hi:
Parasara's "retrograde = exaltation" statement is in the "Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra"; most subsequent (classical Vedic) authors supported this view; C.S Patel has shown that planets when retorgrade are closer to the Earth (astronomically) than at other times in their orbits around the Sun (ref. "Predicting through Navamsha and Nadi Astrology", last chapter)
I believe that stationary means a consolidation of power, regardless of SD or SR, however, I have no references to this concept in the literature I know of; both East and West, it seems SD is accorded more power and SR is considered largely a blocked or weakened influence (I do not know exactly how Vedic authorities consider SR, but SD is considered poweful, as in Western astrology)
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

maybe retrograde doesn't mean anything since it isn't an actual planetary phenomenon (except in our view from earth). Or things of that planet is delayed but then is realized to a high degree.

fact is for outer planets many have Rx planets. I doubt it is extremely significant.
 
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Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

Good point-there is an astronomical fact, though, and that is that when retrograde the planet is closer (physically closer) to the Earth, than when the planet is not retrograde.
Does nearness (physical nearness) to the Earth mean a greater effect/influence of the planet on the Earth??
...food for thought (at least it has been for me:whistling:)
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

Good point-there is an astronomical fact, though, and that is that when retrograde the planet is closer (physically closer) to the Earth, than when the planet is not retrograde.
Does nearness (physical nearness) to the Earth mean a greater effect/influence of the planet on the Earth??
...food for thought (at least it has been for me:whistling:)

Well my jupiter is rx and is exalted in cancer in the second. I always had money but it was from my dad and grandmother who supported me and gave me money whenever I wanted it (I never asked). I had to work still, but always got family members money and didn't have to work through college. Yet I have Saturn in Capricorn opposing Jupiter in the 8th which should denote difficulty with other people's money. I am not rich, but I don't have to struggle with money due to other's help. But I am trying to become independent but it has proven to be difficult. So I am not sure if Jupiter's blessings are gone or not. Benefic influences do feel lacking sometimes.
 
Re: Traditional views on retrogradation

Good point-there is an astronomical fact, though, and that is that when retrograde the planet is closer (physically closer) to the Earth, than when the planet is not retrograde.
Does nearness (physical nearness) to the Earth mean a greater effect/influence of the planet on the Earth??
...food for thought (at least it has been for me:whistling:)

Yes. Careful observation can bring these things to notice.
1. A Planets closer to earth has more influence on humans.
2. A faster planet has less influence, sometimes useless or eventless.
3. A retrograde planet start taking sort of Saturnian or South Nodes nature. At times it is blessing. Most of the times it is frustration.
4. A planet at its average speed gives best result corresponding to what we see in books.
 
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