what is a precessed solar return chart?

[PatPat]

hello everyone,

how is it different to the normal solar return chart?

an astrologer used my birth data and converted it to a rather unfamiliar return chart,a precessed one.

"i don't have time right now to comment on this chart but i can note the planet-groupings of most interest."

 

[FraterAC]

Precession refers to the astronomical fact that the point where the ecliptic crosses the celestial equator, which defines 0 degrees Aries in the tropical Zodiac, moves backwards along the equator about 50.2" (ie minutes of arc, or 50.2/60ths of 1/60th of 1/360th of the circle) per year. This is called the precession of the equinox.
A solar return is the return of the Sun to its position in the birth chart of the native.
But because the tropical Zodiac is moving backwards (ie precessing) , the Solar return Sun's natal position in the tropical Zodiac is different from its actual position in space at the time of birth (its sidereal position; it's position against the fixed stars, sideris). This difference increases every year, by 50.2".
This leaves us three alternatives.
1. Ignore the difference between the tropical and sidereal positions, and use the Sun's tropical birth position and tropical Zodiac. This is what most astrologers in the West currently do.
2. Calculate the return based on its sidereal position and use the Sidereal Zodiac. This is what advocates of the Western Siderealist school (Fagan, Firebrace, Bradley/Allen, et al) do.
3. Calculate the return based on the Sun's sidereal position, but present the chart in terms of the tropical Zodiac. This is what is properly referred to as a precessed Solar return. There are a number of ways to present this, which can create some confusion, but that's basically it.

Options 2 and 3 will both be calculated for the same time, and the planets will be in the same houses, but the signs will be different, since they present different Zodiacs (the Sidereal for 2 and the tropical for 3). Option 1 will be for an earlier time, and the planets will be in different houses, and the Moon and faster planets will be in slightly different positions, depending on the age of the native. The angles of the chart will also be different.
By the time the native is 72 or so, the two returns will be more or less a day apart, so at age 36, more or less 12 hours apart, etc.

All three options have their advocates. I've personally used options 1 and 3, and currently favor 1. But as I say, all have their advocates.

 

[PatPat]

So In terms of interpretation, since houses change with respect to the sun,would you say they are accurate as well?

 

[FraterAC]

So In terms of interpretation, since houses change with respect to the sun,would you say they are accurate as well?

I don't know.
A number of writers maintain that both offer valuable information, including Celeste Teal, Anthony Louis, and others.
It might be noted that the Siderealist school reads returns differently, putting more emphasis on the angles of the chart although ignoring houses per se.
I've since been inclined to favor the straight tropical returns, in part because I've found progressing them to be meaningful. I advocated and struggled with precessed returns for years, but for me at least they never really clicked. Others may find them invaluable.
At this point I'm not dogmatic.

 

[PatPat]

Thanks for your time

 

[AriesIntrovert]

I experimented with precessed solar return charts for several years but I never found them to be truthful for me.

If other people use them and find them helpful that is great, it just didn’t work at all for me.

 

[SummerBliss]

I've always saved both, Ive found the non-precessed return to be more accurate. If I am looking for verification or a different way to view something, I may look at the processed SR in addition to everything else

 

[PatPat]

I experimented with precessed solar return charts for several years but I never found them to be truthful for me.

If other people use them and find them helpful that is great, it just didn’t work at all for me.

I did check them both this year and I do have Pluto in the 4th in one. Uranus in 4th in the other. Quite something.

 

[AriesIntrovert]

I did check them both this year and I do have Pluto in the 4th in one. Uranus in 4th in the other. Quite something.

Indeed. However… do your progressed charts show either strong Pluto or Uranus themes with those planets or the houses they rule naturally? If yes to either, and the law of three can be found (you find the same theme three times), then something may manifest.

I used to be nervous about solar return charts if I found Saturn or Pluto in the 8th house but the year would come and go without anything of note because they weren’t conjunct a natal planet and no death theme was in my progressions.

I now take little note of where the outer planets are in return charts unless I find the rule of three confirming a theme.

 

[PatPat]

My outer planets haven't moved much. However this past year prog moon was square natal mercury which rules my fourth so things to do with that area went chaotic.

As you said the rule of 3, this previous year , I had saturn in the 8th but sr moon was square natal moon and Sr pluto square natal moon.I stood no chance.

Transit Saturn was also square natal pluto and neptune was square natal saturn and asc.

Anyway for this year the progressed chart doesn't show much just moon square natal sun.

With transits however, uranus is trine my natal ic and is currently retrograde.It will be exact in a few months maybe april through June?

Transit pluto is will be squaring my natal mercury which is my 4h ruler around that time at 3'48.I could be wrong as I am not experienced as an astrologer just research on my natal chart.

Transit pluto will also be squaring my venus as they are conjunct with mercury.What does this mean as someone who hasn't dated seriously before?

 

[Claire19]

hello everyone,

how is it different to the normal solar return chart?

an astrologer used my birth data and converted it to a rather unfamiliar return chart,a precessed one.

"i don't have time right now to comment on this chart but i can note the planet-groupings of most interest."

solar return charts are always on the outside of the natal chart and not separate. They remain the same for whole year in question. No precessed, whatever that means.

 

[FraterAC]

No precessed, whatever that means.

Precessed solar returns are explained here

• #2

 

[FraterAC]

They remain the same for whole year in question.

In a sense.
Solar returns can be progressed, and the angles and Moon, or any perfecting aspect, can time specific events. They are progressed using Secondary (aka Major) progressions. The angles can be advanced several ways; the easiest is using the Sun/Midheaven phase angle from the Solar return and applying that with the transiting Sun to create a progressed Midheaven (then getting the corresponding Ascendant from a table of houses for the SR location). Aspects involving the progressed angles are good within a day or two.
Lunar returns can be progressed using Tertiary progressions, or by using the Moon/Midheaven phase angle from the LR to generate a progressed Midheaven. Since the angles progress at the speed of the transiting Moon, they can time events within a couple of hours or so.
The point with either return is to advance the chart one whole rotation (advance the MC 360 degrees) during the period of its influence; a year for a SR, a month for a LR. Configurations involving planets ruling or in houses are particularly meaningful (including both co-rulers for Scorpio, Aquarius and Pisces).
I was initially very skeptical about progressing return charts until I tried it and found it was meaningful in the majority of cases.

 

[Arena]

In a sense.
Solar returns can be progressed, and the angles and Moon, or any perfecting aspect, can time specific events. They are progressed using Secondary (aka Major) progressions. The angles can be advanced several ways; the easiest is using the Sun/Midheaven phase angle from the Solar return and applying that with the transiting Sun to create a progressed Midheaven (then getting the corresponding Ascendant from a table of houses for the SR location). Aspects involving the progressed angles are good within a day or two.
Lunar returns can be progressed using Tertiary progressions, or by using the Moon/Midheaven phase angle from the LR to generate a progressed Midheaven. Since the angles progress at the speed of the transiting Moon, they can time events within a couple of hours or so.
The point with either return is to advance the chart one whole rotation (advance the MC 360 degrees) during the period of its influence; a year for a SR, a month for a LR. Configurations involving planets ruling or in houses are particularly meaningful (including both co-rulers for Scorpio, Aquarius and Pisces).
I was initially very skeptical about progressing return charts until I tried it and found it was meaningful in the majority of cases.

Do you progress lunar returns as well? To find the time of the month when the angles pass by the planets to trigger them?

Or only the solar return?

 

[FraterAC]

Do you progress lunar returns as well? To find the time of the month when the angles pass by the planets to trigger them?

Or only the solar return?

I have progressed both Solar and Lunar returns, as I described. Not only the angles themselves, but often the Moon, or other planets, perfect aspects (meaning, aspects or potential aspects in the return, or to the radix, come closer to exact).
I give a number of examples of a way to do that for Lunar returns in the thread Are Lunar Returns even Important? under Lunar Returns under Predictive Astrology. I also show in detail how to do that as described in my post, above.
By all means, if you're interested, try it out, and let everyone here know what your results are.