Who will win the fight - the Gypsy King or the Cat?

[Ukpoohbear]

‘Who will win the fight - the Gypsy King or the Cat?’

Tyson Fury, aka the Gypsy King, native to the UK, is scheduled to fight Oleksandr Usyk, aka the Cat, native to Ukrainian, for the undisputed World Heavyweight title, on February 17th ‘24, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

‘You’ve beaten the rest of them (UK boxer’s) but you won’t beat Tyson Fury, ya sausage!’
— Tyson Fury aka the Gypsy King



Meanwhile, Alexsandr Usyk aka the Cat’s wife, Katerina Usyk, posted the below meme on her instagram account. It shows Usyk as the grimreaper, knocking on the door of Fury. Before him, are three open doors with blood trailing out of them, illustrating the UK boxer’s Usyk as already beaten - Tony Bellew, Derek Chisora and Anthony Joshua.



https://www.express.co.uk/sport/boxing/1747225/Oleksandr-Usyk-Tyson-Fury-heavyweight-boxing-news
But who will win…??

Before I saw the chart, I was hoping that the two significator’s would be the Sun for the Gypsy ‘King’ and Saturn for ‘the Cat,’ as Saturn is the natural significator of cats, and the Sun of king’s.

This would make it a lot easier to try interpret the chart because this is my first time asking a sports question in horary.

Kindly, the 1st house significator is indeed Saturn, so I would give that to Usyk but, annoyingly, the 7th house sig is one degree away from being the Sun, and is in fact the Moon!

Also, the asc degree is 29. Some astrologers would say the chart is invalid if the asc degree is too early or too late. However, I do still read these charts, but incorporate the late or early degree as part of the story.

There is no applying aspect between each Sig and both apply to other planets. Is this part of the story meaning the fight will not go ahead?

Saturn is in mutual reception to Venus and applies to Venus in 8 units - is this who Usyk the Cat fights next?

I am also not convinced that the Gypsy King is not the Sun - you can see Sun has just been combust with Mars, and Tyson Fury has just fought the newcomer, Francis Ngannou.

Despite Ngannou’s newcomer status, the fight was a close call, with Fury only winning by 1 point after a split decision with the judges. Ngannou was said to be in control for most of the fight and even knocked Fury down on the 3rd round. Despite this, he still lost.

This kind of fight is exactly what we would expect from a Sun combust a Mars in Scorpio, who then both then went on to square Saturn (limitations and restrictions).

Even though Fury won, only winning by such a small margin, does not exactly look good on him, especially when he is due to fight Usyk so soon, and has already been plagued with accusations of cowardice by choosing to fight a newcomer first over the skilled Usyk.

And the Saturn restriction from Ngannou’s side is not winning at all.

Is this why the fight between the Gypsy King and the Cat does not go ahead?

I would be grateful for the insight of others’ because this is my first time interpreting a sport horary, plus the chart is a bit of a mess.

Even so, I am not apt to change the timing round to suit the question more, as this is what the chart showed the moment I cast it, and even if it was a bit earlier, that would make the 7th house more the Moon anyway.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

@Humanitarian

v’s

 

[Humanitarian]

@fensi88, @leylayigit, can we read and judge a sport horary chart if the ASC is very late?

 

[Hwistle]

I’m going to say the Cat will win:

Boxing matches are about who retains the “kingship”, so we take H10 for the defendant (the actual king), that’s it, The Cat. The contender gets H4

So, the Cat is Jupiter in Taurus. It’s peregrine, so might not be in his best form during the fight. Being retrograde might also be an affliction, or might stand for the fact he’s going back to win the belt. He’s on a fixed sign which reinforces the idea of staying put and keeping the title.

The British contender is Mercury in Sagittarius: no good, he is in his detriment and ruled by the Cat! This is bad news for the contender. It’s also conjunct Neptune, indicating that his boast of winning might just be an illusion (or calling himself the King is a deceit).

Arguably, we could take into consideration the soon-to-happen change of sign in Mercury: it will improve its essential dignity, but only to the extent it becomes peregrine like the Cat. I don’t think this is strong enough to go in favour of a Gypsy win.

In boxing matches it’s also worth checking the Part of resignation and Dismissal, to see if it affects the incumbent. The Part is at 03° Leo 12’ so the dispositor is the Sun, which conjuncts the House of the incumbent… But this only indicates that the thought of losing the title weights heavily on the Cat’s shoulder, not that he will loose (that would be shown by an aspect between the part/dispositor and L10, and we have none)

So, my judgement would be that the Cat will win, no so much because he puts a good fight but because the Gypsy King will be in worse form.

We’ll see what happens next year!

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Hey @Hwistle great interpretation! The only thing I would say is, I think the defender is the Gypsy King because he is the more experienced fighter. He has 33 fights to the Cat’s 20 fights.

The Gypsy King is also the one who had the power to choose who to fight next.

Jupiter fits the Gypsy King as well because he is a huge imposing guy at 6”9! I will post their stats below.

As a UK person, I would find it humiliating if some guy came from left field and beat all our boxer’s but, The Cat is from Ukraine and he has talked about wanting to win to provide motivation for his friends’ who are fighting the war effort.

I would want Cat to win for this reason. He also suits being Mercury because he is known to be very intelligent - he writes poetry and solves puzzles when he is not boxing.

After he fought and defeated another UK boxer, Bellew, Bellew is quoted as saying that the Cat ‘downloads what the other fighter is doing’ and it usually only takes him 3 rounds to work out his opponent’s weakness.

However, the Cat is on the smaller side of the heavyweight fighters, whereas the Gypsy King is on the bigger side, so can intelligence really beat brute strength?

They are both undefeated fighter’s though, so this is a huge match! I am tempted to put on my first ever bet!

I will post their charts soon and do a character profile on them.

 

[Hwistle]

Hey @Hwistle great interpretation! The only thing I would say is, I think the defender is the Gypsy King because he is the more experienced fighter. He has 33 fights to the Cat’s 20 fights.

The Gypsy King is also the one who had the power to choose who to fight next.

Jupiter fits the Gypsy King as well because he is a huge imposing guy at 6”9!

As a UK person, I would find it humiliating if some guy came from left field and beat all our boxer’s but, The Cat is from Ukraine and he has talked about wanting to win to provide motivation for his friends’ who are fighting the war effort.

I would want Cat to win for this reason. He also suits being Mercury because he is known to be very intelligent - he writes poetry and solves puzzles when he is not boxing.

After he fought and defeated another UK boxer, Bellew, Bellew is quoted as saying that the Cat ‘downloads what the other fighter is doing’ and it usually only takes him 3 rounds to work out his opponent’s weakness.

However, the Cat is on the smaller side of the heavyweight fighters, whereas the Gypsy King is on the bigger side, so can intelligence really beat brute strength?

They are both undefeated fighter’s though, so this is a huge match! I am tempted to put on my first ever bet!

I will post their charts soon and do a character profile on them.

You might be right, tbh I was assuming the Cat holds the current title and the Gypsy King is contesting it (in that sense, the Cat is the King) , but I don't know much about boxing matches myself... Let's see what the outcome is

 

[Ukpoohbear]

You might be right, tbh I was assuming the Cat holds the current title and the Gypsy King is contesting it (in that sense, the Cat is the King) , but I don't know much about boxing matches myself... Let's see what the outcome is

It’s probably the way I introduced the fighter’s in my post that made it seem like the Cat was the defender.

Roll on Feb 17th!!

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Here is a 1min45 clip of the Gypsy King bumping into The Cat in Saudi Arabia last month. Perhaps with the benefit of @Hwistle ’s analysis , and knowing that Mercury (The Cat) is in rulership of Jupiter, the Gypsy King, it is so obvious The Cat is intimidated!

I have seen how The Cat has behaved in the lead up to other fights - he is usually the one joking around and winding up his opponent, but through sheer natural force of the Gypsy King’s personality, he is the dominant one. And he is not even doing it for that effect, he is entirely being his genuine self wiht nk ill intentions.

It was the same during their press conference together, Usyk looked a bit overwhelmed by Fury’s volume.

Even so, Usyk is an extremely intelligent fighter - so I am not surprised it will be a close call.

Usyk is an Orthodox Christian and claims this fight is a symbol of the fight between David and Goliath - he knows what he is up against. But the reason the David and Goliath story is symbolic is because it is an anomaly.

Fury, the Gypsy King, is not a stupid giant, although he may not be as intelligent as the chess playing Usyk, but he is more than just brute strength and also has a unique type of creative intelligence, thanks to his Bipolar Disorder. He comes from a long line of Gypsy heritage, but I think part of his success in surpassing the limitations of his past and becoming so successful is because he thinks outside of the box.

Fury nailed it when he said during the press conference, when describing his opponent The Cat - ‘it is not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog, and Usyk has a lot of fight in him,’ but, he goes on to say, and I now paraphrase, ‘I also have the fight in me. He has the fight but I have the power and the fight.’

Sorry, The Cat, as much as I want you to become the undefeated heavyweight champion of the world and bring it back to your people on Ukraine, you ain’t gonna, and the UK keeps its crown.

 

[Hwistle]

You might be right about Jupiter being Tyson, considering you yourself are Saturn in Pisces! (Not that we need to look at the chart to find out who do you support...

 

[Ukpoohbear]

You might be right about Jupiter being Tyson, considering you yourself are Saturn in Pisces! (Not that we need to look at the chart to find out who do you support...

I initially thought I might be more drawn to Usyk, just because he is such an interesting characegr, cos he writes poetry and solves puzzles in his spare time, and is known to download what his opponent does and then find weakness in it - wow! But yep, I’m backing the winner who also happens to be from the UK

I do feel sorry for Usyk though, just cos it would be good for morale back in Ukraine but hey ho.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Bloody fight has been postponed. Is that the 29th degree? Maybe.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/b...nification-bout-Oleksandr-Usyk-POSTPONED.html

 

[Humanitarian]

Bloody fight has been postponed. Is that the 29th degree? Maybe.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/b...nification-bout-Oleksandr-Usyk-POSTPONED.html

I think it's really the AC-DC axis in 29th degree, since it means that the matter is coming to an end, usually negative.

 

[Cap]

I don't think this chart can be judged.
This is a match for title unification, Tyson holds the title in one association and Usyk holds the title in remaining three associations. This means they are both "kings" in their respective associations, so we don't have 10th vs. 4th here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyson_Fury_vs_Oleksandr_Usyk

And it cannot be judged as 1st vs. 7th because at the time of asking the question you were not a fan of either one in particular, so it is not "us vs. them" situation.

Btw, if it were 1st vs. 7th then the victory would probably go to the boxer represented by 7th, most likely by knockout, because of Pluto sitting on the ASC. Pluto signifies horrible defeat and devastation in sport charts. Most famous example is Brazil vs. Germany, semifinal of World Cup 2014 (this is event chart). All other factors are slightly in 7th favor but what really signifies humiliating defeat of ASC is Pluto. Result was 1:7.





Also, keep in mind, POF is of outmost importance in contest charts, it is an absolute must to have POF in the chart.

 

[Cap]

@fensi88, @leylayigit, can we read and judge a sport horary chart if the ASC is very late?

This is, of course, my personal opinion: every chart can be judged, regardless of so called "strictures against judgement".

So called "strictures" were really just a convenient way for astrologer to avoid giving his answer. Imagine the following situation, you are astrologer on a court and you are about to bring very bad news to your employer, the king, news so bad that potentially he could chop off your head. But you have magical escape: "Sire, I would really like to help you but this chart cannot be judged because Saturn is in the 1st house".

As for early or late ascendant, what ancient astrologers did was to calculate one chart at the start of the day and if they had to answer a horary question later that day, they would adjust ASC, houses and the Moon according to their time measuring device (or by looking at position of the Sun in the sky). They would most likely calculate all this in their head so that's why they were afraid their ascendant might be in completely different sign if it is too close to the beginning of the sign. Completely justified fear of miscalculation, I would say.

But in our modern times we have computers that calculate charts for us and we can be pretty much 100% certain that ASC is inside the sign even if it is on 29th degree.

 

[MarinaFFF]

If they are both Kings, than using the first and 7th house, with still the same outcome in my opinion.
The Cat will win, but I think it will be a very exciting game, because they are almost equal in strength in this chart.

I will use Saturn for the King because of the authority and the Cat Moon because Cancer is his 6th house of our house pets.
I know Lilly use Saturn for cats, but in this case the Moon will make more sense too me.

Saturn in a angular house has more strength, than peregrine Moon with day ruler Saturn.
First glance at the chart shows Saturn (the authority) in a much stronger position, but things never seems as it appears to be.
I think it will start bad for the cat, for a while it seems the King will win.

What convinced me of the winning of the Cat, is the very beneficial help from Venus in own sign.
The help Saturn receive is from busted Mars in a difficult square, hitting blinded (maybe he’s bleeding, foggy eye sight) after 2 units of time. Busted Mars afflict Saturn badly.
Venus will help peregrine Moon in a positive way, after 3 units of time (whatever that means).
From out of nowhere Venus show up from the 8th house and give a knock-out (Pluto) on the Asc.

This is my first contest chart.
I agree with Frawley about too late and too soon Asc degrees. He says “the Universe never stops working”.
What it says in this chart is: the sudden unexpected outcome of the fight. There will be a turning table moment.
A against all odds moment.
I think it’s gonna be a long fight.
Moon is in 5th house of entertainment at the beginning of the show.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Thank you everybody for your interpretations. The lack of clarity on the situation just adds to the exciting intrigue!

I have added the Pars Fortunae to the chart and it is in the Sun 7th house.

It is true that I did not have a clear favourite when I first cast this chart. Maybe the Gypsy King is more likely to be the 1st house because of our mutual affiliation with the UK being our native country.

I would definitely not be surprised if The Cat wins though, I looked at his natal chart, before I cast this chart, as well as what other fighter’s said about him, and he is a very clever man.

Here is the chart with POF added.

 

[MarinaFFF]

The lack of clarity on the situation just adds to the existing intrigue!

Yes it’s almost flipping coins. If this chart already intrigues than the fight promise to be spectacular.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Oops, I meant exciting not existing. But you got what I meant anyway. I’m using an iPhone and it changes words by its own accord, Steve Jobs fukin with me from beyond the grave.

 

[MarinaFFF]

Is the chart “Who will win the fight - the Gypsy King or the Cat?” Still valid after the fight is postponed?

Moon in house of entertainment/sports, applies to Saturn in house of Astrologers in square. A chart with delay. But it’s still valid.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

@MarinaFFF smart move to check if the original chart is still valid!!

Hopefully the fight will not be postponed too long.