Will I have career/financial success or will I struggle?

[aquarius7000]

Right — *if* there is mutual reception. In this case there is not. They need aspects to have mutual reception.

It’s like two people seeing each other from their own homes. They are in each other’s homes but they don’t see each other and therefore cannot receive each other through the transmission of light.

Your example has me wondering if we perhaps understand Mutual Reception differently. For me, mutual reception is, say we have Venus and Mars as the two significators. Now Venus is in Aries and Mars in Libra. So Mars is in a sign where Venus is dignified and Venus in Aries, where Mars is dignified. Hence the two are in Mutual Reception. Alone this placement proves to me that the two people like eachother - the romanatic feeling is mutual. However, if there is no aspect between Mars and Venus, and Moon is not aspecting the two either, then no action might happen.

 

[Solar Flare]

Right — *if* there is mutual reception. In this case there is not. They need aspects to have mutual reception.

It’s like two people seeing each other from their own homes. They are in each other’s homes but they don’t see each other and therefore cannot receive each other through the transmission of light.

Wrong, there is mutual reception in the OP's chart. Mercury is in domicile in Virgo and Venus is domicile in Libra. There is no aspect though (you could say there is a semi-sextile, I guess, but that would be topkek).

I see it the other way. Mercury in the OP's chart does Libran things but uses the resources sent to him from Virgo. And Venus does the same but the other way around. So they don't actually meet but they share resources and it makes the situation significant. Nobody's arguing that there is an aspect between Mercury and Venus.

 

[D-Rok]

Wrong, there is mutual reception in the OP's chart. Mercury is in domicile in Virgo and Venus is domicile in Libra. There is no aspect though (you could say there is a semi-sextile, I guess, but that would be topkek).

I see it the other way. Mercury in the OP's chart does Libran things but uses the resources sent to him from Virgo. And Venus does the same but the other way around. So they don't actually meet but they share resources and it makes the situation significant. Nobody's arguing that there is an aspect between Mercury and Venus.

Semi-sextile is not a valid aspect unfortunately. Yes they are in each other’s signs. But you *need* an aspect to allow mutual reception if you’re going to claim it as such. I’m sorry man, I didn’t make the rules.

 

[Solar Flare]

Semi-sextile is not a valid aspect unfortunately. Yes they are in each other’s signs. But you *need* an aspect to allow mutual reception if you’re going to claim it as such. I’m sorry man, I didn’t make the rules.

Well, we can agree to disagree here. I explained my reasoning and I think it makes sense. I'm not a fan of the approach of using traditional techniques just for the sake of being called a traditionalist. It's unprofessional and regressive imo. I personally like to question the validity of concepts in astrology and if they don't make sense to me, I don't feel obliged to use them and will probably stop doing it even if I risk losing muh traditionalist badge. And btw, as I mentioned, William Lilly said that aspects weren't required for mutual reception and he certainly was a traditionalist even though the later one. So there is some leeway even for strong adherents of traditional astrology.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Well, we can agree to disagree here. I explained my reasoning
and I think it makes sense.
I'm not a fan of the approach of using traditional techniques
just for the sake of being called a traditionalist.
It's unprofessional and regressive imo.

Traditionalists use Traditional techniques
and
are referred to as Traditional astrologers
that's neither regressive nor unprofessional

HOWEVER
fact is
many modernist astrologers use Traditional techniques

I personally like to question the validity of concepts in astrology
and if they don't make sense to me, I don't feel obliged to use them
and will probably stop doing it
even if I risk losing muh traditionalist badge.
And btw, as I mentioned, William Lilly said
that aspects weren't required for mutual reception
and he certainly was a traditionalist even though the later one.
So there is some leeway even for strong adherents of traditional astrology.

Nevertheless Libra Mercury and Virgo Venus are in adjacent signs
and therefore
traditionally
are not in aspect
but instead are in Disregard

 

[D-Rok]

Well, we can agree to disagree here. I explained my reasoning and I think it makes sense. I'm not a fan of the approach of using traditional techniques just for the sake of being called a traditionalist. It's unprofessional and regressive imo. I personally like to question the validity of concepts in astrology and if they don't make sense to me, I don't feel obliged to use them and will probably stop doing it even if I risk losing muh traditionalist badge. And btw, as I mentioned, William Lilly said that aspects weren't required for mutual reception and he certainly was a traditionalist even though the later one. So there is some leeway even for strong adherents of traditional astrology.

You do you chief, I don’t really get the underhanded unprofessionalist comment because I am trying to help out, but if that’s what you think I won’t stop you. I am trying to make sense of things just as much as you are. You can do whatever you want and while Lilly is a good source the idea of having two planets in each other’s signs without aspect ought to encourage a second thought about mutually receiving each other.

As such, a planet receives another planet through the transmission of light. When these planets are mutually receiving each other, there is an aspect through the transmission of light. Because they do not do this in this person’s nativity, there is no ground for mutual reception. They’re just...in each other’s signs. Even the term makes this quite plain — mutual *reception*.

 

[Solar Flare]

Traditionalists use Traditional techniques
and
are referred to as Traditional astrologers
that's neither regressive nor unprofessional

HOWEVER
fact is
many modernist astrologers use Traditional techniques

Nevertheless Libra Mercury and Virgo Venus are in adjacent signs
and therefore
traditionally
are not in aspect
but instead are in Disregard

JupiterAsc, I am not against using traditional techniques. Most, if not all, techniques I use are traditional. And I'm certainly not saying that all people who use traditional techniques are regressive and unprofessional. What I am against, however, is strongly advocating for using traditional techniques without testing them for yourself and actually seeing them work. Worshipping traditional astrologers like gods and thinking that everything they said should be true does more harm than good to astrology. It's healthy to question authority from time to time. The same applies to modern astrologers because some of them also tend to blindly follow what they've heard or read and think that it makes them valid astrologers.

Yes, Virgo and Libra don't aspect each other. Perhaps it's worth mentioning that they're contra-antiscia though.

 

[Solar Flare]

You do you chief, I don’t really get the underhanded unprofessionalist comment because I am trying to help out, but if that’s what you think I won’t stop you. I am trying to make sense of things just as much as you are. You can do whatever you want and while Lilly is a good source the idea of having two planets in each other’s signs without aspect ought to encourage a second thought about mutually receiving each other.

As such, a planet receives another planet through the transmission of light. When these planets are mutually receiving each other, there is an aspect through the transmission of light. Because they do not do this in this person’s nativity, there is no ground for mutual reception. They’re just...in each other’s signs. Even the term makes this quite plain — mutual *reception*.

Dude, I know that you're trying to help out. I'm not trying to shut down the discussion or accuse you of anything. Sorry if I seemed brash and disrespectful. What somewhat frustrated me was that you pretty much dismissed my and aquarius7000's comments and said "Well, I didn't make the rules". What you're operating with are not rules, they are guidelines. If your experience indicates that there is more to the guideline than you knew before, it would be reasonable to add this to your techniques, wouldn't it? It really seemed to me that you didn't want to step away from sticking to the tradition so strictly for a reason you couldn't properly explain. If you disagree with me, that's fine! I'm not forcing you to accept my opinion. But you should understand for yourself why you're making the decision to disagree with me based on logic and/or experience, not on "Those dam,n heretics".

I agree that the transmission of light can happen only if there is an aspect. There is no aspect between planets when they are in Virgo and Libra. We agree so far. However, I've already explained why I still call it mutual reception even though, OK, maybe it's not mutual reception in the most basic meaning. And one thing which is important to me is that I consider this type of reception as relevant only if it concerns rulerships. The reason for this is dispositorship. It wouldn't work with other planetary dignities. As I said, we can agree to disagree. Maybe over time I'll see that the way I use it doesn't work. Just like you, I'm trying to make sense of things. But until then, I'll continue to consider Mercury and Venus in the OP's chart as being in mutual reception.

 

[JUPITERASC]

JupiterAsc, I am not against using traditional techniques. Most, if not all, techniques I use are traditional. And I'm certainly not saying that all people who use traditional techniques are regressive and unprofessional. What I am against, however, is strongly advocating for using traditional techniques without testing them for yourself and actually seeing them work. Worshipping traditional astrologers like gods and thinking that everything they said should be true does more harm than good to astrology. It's healthy to question authority from time to time. The same applies to modern astrologers because some of them also tend to blindly follow what they've heard or read and think that it makes them valid astrologers.

Yes, Virgo and Libra don't aspect each other.

Perhaps it's worth mentioning that they're contra-antiscia though.

 

[ZoraEos]

The ruler of your 10th house, Venus, is in Virgo in the 9th house so I think international relations/affairs and law are great choices for you. With Mercury sitting in your 10th house, your job definitely has to be mental. Overall, I really like the Mercury-Venus mutual reception in your chart. I think it's a good sign for your career. I think you have rather good prospects! What I'm not a fan of though is the fact that your Mercury is combust and closely dominated by your out-of-sect malefic Mars. Truth be told, I'm not exactly sure how the combustion of Mercury can manifest in your case but I see that it is also the ruler of your 6th house... It could denote some kind of illness (6th house) developed because of your career (10th house) which will not be noticed by you (combustion) but that's quite a reach so I don't think I should be taken seriously here haha. With Mars dominating your Mercury, however, it can be a sign of hard competition in your career path, most probably you won't get to the top easily. Mars rules your 4th and 11th houses so these troubles may arise because of your family and/or friends. With Mars being in your 8th house, this may be a rather dangerous combination...

Regarding your finances, your 2nd house is ruled by Saturn which is in Aries in the 4th house... Saturn is a nasty planet in general but it's quite good in your case. It's in sect so its negative effects won't be harsh, it's in a good house and, perhaps most importantly, it's dominated by your in-sect benefic Jupiter. So I definitely don't see you poor in the future. Moreover, your parents may be helpful (it's in the 4th house). However, getting rich may not be that easy. Saturn is still a malefic so you may have to work a lot to gain money but I see that your efforts will not be left unnoticed, even though it may take a while before the results pay off (Saturn is retrograde). Just hopefully you will earn your money without using some, well... illegal methods, if I can say so because otherwise it can end badly for you.

I suggest you to take my reply with a grain of salt though because I'm not a professional astrologer and still learning so I could be wrong with a lot of these delineations.

Solar Flare, thank you so much for your amazing detailed reply!! I just need to ask - Are you using a different house system? Because I have always thought that my Venus is in the 8th house, and that my Mars is in the 7th. I have also thought that Scorpio is on my 10th house cusp, making Mars the 10th house ruler.

However, the analysis makes sense so far as some friends/family have already impacted my college career a bit negatively, and I have had some health problems arising... There also has been a sense of competition and pressure in my college course so far, as well. I'm doing pretty well in the short-term, but feeling worried about if something like friends/family/health/job market/etc. can undermine me in the long-term.

The only thing that was off about the analysis was the part about my parents helping me financially as, well, they're on the poorer side and have always had financial concerns. I was quite a stingy teenager due to this.
Plus, with my father's health declining as it is due to overwork and him growing older, I don't foresee how they would ever be able to help me financially in the future. I'd like to financially help them, which also adds to my anxieties of will I be able to.
However, I have been living at home during my undergrad (I wanted to go, but my parents wanted me to stay), which has helped me save money, so I can see how it may be referring to that.

Glad to hear that my efforts will not be left unnoticed, so long as I work hard and maintain integrity.

 

[Solar Flare]

Huh, that's actually very interesting, especially the first picture. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ZoraEos]

Typically Fall (not sure about Rx if that is accidental or essential) is regarded as a pretty bad essential debility, ESPECIALLY for Saturn. While it would be nice to say it’s “not at all bad to have the Greater Malefic in his Fall while being Retrograde and Below the Earth” I am going to have to disagree with you here, regardless of disposition. Also, Mars being in 8 is pretty bad since the 8th house along with the 6th and 12th offers affliction, which means he would likely *lose* money doing legal matters due to impulse and rash consideration.

Idk man, I want to agree with you but Saturn looks pretty rough here.

Yes, I was quite worried about my finances and Saturn for that reason - Saturn in fall and retrograde in the 2nd house, plus I'm a Capricorn rising, so that fallen Saturn is my chart ruler. I was quite nervous when I saw that, but I'm not versed enough in astrology to know what it can do. Does it just mean a long shaky road to success?

Also, I'm not sure if my Mars in is 8th house, I always thought it was 7th, or at least, that's what the default house system on astro.com shows me.

 

[ZoraEos]

Zora,

I am a traditional Astrologer, and, in traditional astrology, Jupiter rules Pisces (not Neptune), Mars rules Scorpio (not Pluto) and Saturn rules Aquarius (not Uranus).

Solar Flare has interpreted your career aspects well, too. Law too is a good choice for you given that you have the Sun in the 9th house. However, I think that Sun might make you study law, but you will most like end up teaching it with such a prominent Merc. and Venus in Virgo, rather than practising it as a lawyer. You could obviously come back and report here and help us learn

Thank you!! Yes, I've had a hard time imagining myself as a lawyer (plus law school is so expensive!), but really like law and international issues, so your analysis makes sense!

 

[Solar Flare]

Solar Flare, thank you so much for your amazing detailed reply!! I just need to ask - Are you using a different house system? Because I have always thought that my Venus is in the 8th house, and that my Mars is in the 7th. I have also thought that Scorpio is on my 10th house cusp, making Mars the 10th house ruler.

However, the analysis makes sense so far as some friends/family have already impacted my college career a bit negatively, and I have had some health problems arising... There also has been a sense of competition and pressure in my college course so far, as well. I'm doing pretty well in the short-term, but feeling worried about if something like friends/family/health/job market/etc. can undermine me in the long-term.

The only thing that was off about the analysis was the part about my parents helping me financially as, well, they're on the poorer side and have always had financial concerns. I was quite a stingy teenager due to this.
Plus, with my father's health declining as it is due to overwork and him growing older, I don't foresee how they would ever be able to help me financially in the future. I'd like to financially help them, which also adds to my anxieties of will I be able to.
However, I have been living at home during my undergrad (I wanted to go, but my parents wanted me to stay), which has helped me save money, so I can see how it may be referring to that.

Glad to hear that my efforts will not be left unnoticed, so long as I work hard and maintain integrity.

Thank you for your reply too. It's great when your efforts do not pass unnoticed. Yes, I use whole signs houses. So with your ascendant in Capricorn, the entire sign of Capricorn is the 1st house, Aquarius - the 2nd house etc. If you use different house systems, you can get different positions of planets in houses. They're different but just as valid, it's only a matter of what you prefer to use. I started with Placidus myself but later on switched to whole signs, thanks to the forum members here who suggested it.

Great that you're dealing with difficulties successfully! It's very important if you want to succeed. No matter how good your chart is, you can't get become successful only because of luck. As I said, I see some difficulties in your chart which I described but I'm sure you can overcome them if you're patient and hard-working. Not everything may come easy, but it will pay off sooner or later.

Oh, OK, so I was wrong about something. Thanks for telling me! I'll try to study your chart a bit more later and see why I got this wrong. Sorry to hear about your father... I definitely understand your anxiety and can relate it to some extent. I'd say that you shouldn't be anxious now, you have a lot of time and you're still young. I'm sure you will have a lot of opportunities to make your parents feel proud of you. I'm confident you'll be alright if you hold yourself together and don't let your fear and anxiety get the best of you. Good luck!

 

[JUPITERASC]

Dude, I know that you're trying to help out. I'm not trying to shut down the discussion or accuse you of anything. Sorry if I seemed brash and disrespectful. What somewhat frustrated me was that you pretty much dismissed my and aquarius7000's comments and said "Well, I didn't make the rules". What you're operating with are not rules, they are guidelines. If your experience indicates that there is more to the guideline than you knew before, it would be reasonable to add this to your techniques, wouldn't it? It really seemed to me that you didn't want to step away from sticking to the tradition so strictly for a reason you couldn't properly explain. If you disagree with me, that's fine! I'm not forcing you to accept my opinion. But you should understand for yourself why you're making the decision to disagree with me based on logic and/or experience, not on "Those dam,n heretics".

I agree that the transmission of light can happen only if there is an aspect. There is no aspect between planets when they are in Virgo and Libra. We agree so far. However, I've already explained why I still call it mutual reception even though, OK, maybe it's not mutual reception in the most basic meaning. And one thing which is important to me is that I consider this type of reception as relevant only if it concerns rulerships. The reason for this is dispositorship. It wouldn't work with other planetary dignities. As I said, we can agree to disagree. Maybe over time I'll see that the way I use it doesn't work. Just like you, I'm trying to make sense of things. But until then, I'll continue to consider Mercury and Venus in the OP's chart as being in mutual reception.

The form of mutual reception without aspect under discussion
is known as GENEROSITY

I am not certain when antiscia became a consideration
but in order to really understand what the ancient Hellenist astrologers dr. farr referred to
were doing
it needs be said that aspects were then not just made by orb
but by sign, called regard or witnessing.
Another consideration is that reception...colors, for lack of a better word,
the energy of a planet regardless of aspect.
Mutual reception of planets in aversion
(next door signs or signs that do not traditionally "see" each other
because of the lack of Ptolemaic aspect)
is still mutual reception
called generosity
still has an effect
especially in natal charts.
There are other considerations that could bring these planets together
even without a traditional aspect, such as signs that hear each other
and signs that command and obey.
Toss in parallels in latitude and declination
(so not just antiscia)
and there are many ways that reception can help in deleneating a chart.

Back in 2011 MUTUAL RECEPTION VALID? discussion thread https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41246

Tsmall points out the reasoning behind this
since orbs of influence weren't really developed until later
but the idea of planets needing to see one another was always present.

Generosities aren't in any way a bad thing
they're just less independent than mutual receptions.

Reception is cool and all, and I would rather have it than not have it
but it doesn't do any good unless it's perfect reception
(see what they did there?)
and this occurs by being in either one of the greater dignities
(domicile or exaltation)
and at least two of the lesser dignities
(triplicity, term, and face).
The idea here is
in lesser dignities planets don't have full claim over a sign
like they do in major dignities.
Saturn is always in domicile in Capricorn and exalted in Libra
but it isn't always triplicity lord of Gemini, for example
as it has to share that with Mercury.

While it's true there are other ways that planets can interact with one another
putting the signs that hear one another
and signs that command and obey one another
on the same level as signs that see each other is a little shaky.

Mostly because signs that hear one another
or have a command/obey relationship
have it as a one-on-one relationship
where one sign will command only one other sign
that it may already have an aspectual relationship with.
Firmicus writes that Cancer hears Aries
but they already Square
or that Libra hears Cancer, but they already Square as well.

This is a good point to remember when working with receptions.
They are all relative to one another
in a hierarchy of special reception relationships.
It becomes more of a "take what you can get" exercise.

Huh, that's actually very interesting, especially the first picture.
Thanks for sharing.

The foregoing goes into more details as well

 

[ZoraEos]

Thank you for your reply too. It's great when your efforts do not pass unnoticed. Yes, I use whole signs houses. So with your ascendant in Capricorn, the entire sign of Capricorn is the 1st house, Aquarius - the 2nd house etc. If you use different house systems, you can get different positions of planets in houses. They're different but just as valid, it's only a matter of what you prefer to use. I started with Placidus myself but later on switched to whole signs, thanks to the forum members here who suggested it.

Great that you're dealing with difficulties successfully! It's very important if you want to succeed. No matter how good your chart is, you can't get become successful only because of luck. As I said, I see some difficulties in your chart which I described but I'm sure you can overcome them if you're patient and hard-working. Not everything may come easy, but it will pay off sooner or later.

Oh, OK, so I was wrong about something. Thanks for telling me! I'll try to study your chart a bit more later and see why I got this wrong. Sorry to hear about your father... I definitely understand your anxiety and can relate it to some extent. I'd say that you shouldn't be anxious now, you have a lot of time and you're still young. I'm sure you will have a lot of opportunities to make your parents feel proud of you. I'm confident you'll be alright if you hold yourself together and don't let your fear and anxiety get the best of you. Good luck!

Ohhhh Whole Signs.. I did not know that, I will have to explore it and decide which house system I like best.

Thank you for everything!!

 

[ZoraEos]

Also, Mars being in 8 is pretty bad since the 8th house along with the 6th and 12th offers affliction, which means he would likely *lose* money doing legal matters due to impulse and rash consideration.
Idk man, I want to agree with you but Saturn looks pretty rough here.

Also DRok, could you tell me more about that Mars in 8th (just found out about whole signs)? Would it make pursuing any kind of law career risky? Because I have noticed I can be a little rash/hasty in certain situations, like under great pressure and stress, so I wonder if a Mars in 8th house like that could make any International Affairs-type career (either PhD, lawyer, or working in NGO/international org.) difficult?

Thank you very much for your contributions as well. It's good to have a variety of opinions available in matters like these.

 

[D-Rok]

Also DRok, could you tell me more about that Mars in 8th (just found out about whole signs)? Would it make pursuing any kind of law career risky? Because I have noticed I can be a little rash/hasty in certain situations, like under great pressure and stress, so I wonder if a Mars in 8th house like that could make any International Affairs-type career (either PhD, lawyer, or working in NGO/international org.) difficult?

Thank you very much for your contributions as well. It's good to have a variety of opinions available in matters like these.

This was actually my bad. I use Alcabitius — your Mars is in the 7th house.

I am not nearly as good as some others, but either way an angular Mars will provide much activity for Mars things. I should know, I have 4 planets in the 7th house.

 

[ZoraEos]

This was actually my bad. I use Alcabitius — your Mars is in the 7th house.

I am not nearly as good as some others, but either way an angular Mars will provide much activity for Mars things. I should know, I have 4 planets in the 7th house.

Ah ok, so Mars in the 7th! And it's an angular Mars, that's good to know too. Thank you!

 

[aquarius7000]

Right — *if* there is mutual reception. In this case there is not. They need aspects to have mutual reception.

It’s like two people seeing each other from their own homes. They are in each other’s homes but they don’t see each other and therefore cannot receive each other through the transmission of light.

D-Rok, I am not talking in particular about the chart attached here. Also, as suspected, we do have a different understanding of Mutual Reception. As far as I am concerned, no aspect is required for two planets to mutually receive eachother. They receive each other thru the energies they imbibe via the signs they are in, and those signs are preferably those of dignity of one another. So, going back to my earlier example, Mars in Libra is in the sign, where Venus is dignified, whilst Venus in Aries is in the the sign, where Mars is dignified. Hence they receive each other mutually.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig6.html

So, going by your example, the two people are in each other's homes. A is in B's home (where B feels comfortable), whilst B is in A's home. So, they both already like each other.

Now, of course, if there were also an aspect, the whole romance can come to fruition and become a reality because an aspect means action. So, of course, aspects are helpful. Otherwise the two will just keep liking eachother, but doing nothing about it. Or else the Moon should do something, like translate from one to the other.